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http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii249/kev101/

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

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We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Ok - with some apologies, I was confusing the DP with the Greater Daemon.

However, the DP is both too cheap at +50 points and somewhat overpowered:-

• 3+ Reinforced Armour, Invulnerable save and Fearless makes him virtually impossible to kill (around 1/14).
• 2x extra MW (TK) attacks in Close Combat Plus 1x extra MW (TK) attack when firefighting makes this a very potent unit.
• Teleport allows him to arrive with a very focussed assault.
• Finally allowing it to avoid being the Supreme commander means that ultimately he is also expendable - allowing the Chaos player maximum freedom to deploy this horror with no consequential drawbacks if it is lost through the opponents skill or luck.

The Greater Daemons are even worse in some respects!

• Under the published rules, at 100 points for a DC3 or DC4 RA Titan and +50 points to keep him, the only problem is the risk that it will not appear when wanted. 8+ will appear 15/36 on 2D6 times, or around 42% of the time. So it is more probable that it will appear than staying off-table
• Some Greater Daemons are evidently better than the others - IMO the Tzeench Daemon with 30cms move with a strong Firefight attack is the best, even though it is "only" a DC3+. I suspect that one of the main reasons you do not see more of these beasts is actually the "hated" factions rule because people seem to prefer the lesser deamons of another group.

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

I've always found that Daemon princes and greater daemons look far better on paper than in actual gameplay.

Firstly the DP doesn't cost 50pts as it replaces a unit you have already paid for. In a retinue all they are really good for is as a survivor unit to prevent the BTS dieing as it very rarely wil actually get into combat. The only effective way to use it is with Chosen and then you are paying 115pts for it - and furthermore are risking it in the strategy roll.

The Greater Daemon looks great as an anti-titan unit but once again is only viable in a Chosen formation - and then you are paying a minmimum of nearly 500pts for a unit whose survival is based upon an strategy roll. So is too great a risk against any armies but IG+variants - who even then will probably have scout screened their titans.

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NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

DP:  Personally, I think that with MW instead of TK it's okay.  It might be a little bit overpowered, but not by much.  Just for a quick and dirty comparison, in a formation of Chosen it's effective cost is 115 points versus 65 for the Chosen.  It is ~2x as durable and ~2x as good in assaults (overall - better in FF, less than 2x in CC), but has no ranged fire.

Costing +70-75% might be a touch low, but it's not abusively so.  


GD:  The actual cost of a Greater Daemon is considerably greater than 100 points.  Even after you discount the non-summoning abilities you get when buying the summoning upgrades, the total cost is more like 150-175.  Compare them to scout titans (as similarly sized and weaponed units) and that looks about right, or even a bit expensive.

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Neal