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Rarely used units
Man of kent
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:18 pm 
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Ok; so, from what i've seen at tournaments and from a lot of tournament lists (indeed, lists in general) i notice that there are many units that just don't get used! The questions i'd like to pose are what to do with them and why don't people use them? Some example follow -army by army - below

Imperial Guard
-Super Heavy Formations
-Orbital Support (pretty specialized i know...)
-Mauraders (we all know these are broken!)
-Hellhounds

Titans (in general)
-Reavers (though i would like to try out a 4k list with 2 of them)

Marines
-Predator Detachments
-Vindicator Detachments

Orks
-Dreadnoughts and Killakans
-Spaceships
-Fortresses

Eldar
-Cobra (useless on their own, far too expensive to take 3!)
-Bombers

Other Suggestions so far include:

BL
banelord
greater daemon
bombers

ELDAR
bomber
banshees?


Are there more that people would happily add to a list of 'rarely used' units? Am i completely wrong about some of the above? What about LatD and Black Legion units?
I know i'd certainly like to see more of them around; especially ork dreads etc; it just feel like part of the fluff has dropped out of the game sometimes!




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Steve54
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:45 am 
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In the last couple of year in UK tourneys I don't think we've seen-

IG
spacecraft
marauders

SM
vindicators

ORKS
kommandos?
fortresses

BL
banelord
greater daemon
bombers

ELDAR
bomber
banshees?




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rose4100
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:24 am 
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i use Baneblades in a Company and ShadowSwords as singles but i agree on the Murauders. Way too expensive for two, thunder bolts are fine for air support.

The look of an opponent when you pull a Company of BB's around a corner and unload is always fun :).




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Man of kent
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:45 am 
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ah yes; i was going to mention ork Fortresses; i've made lists with them just for fun but don't tink i'd seriously consider them otherwise; too much risk at too mucj points cost; 125 pts to mount the a normal mob in a fortress versus 140pts to mount them in wagons that don't stand the chance of being blown to shreds and killing all on board after a single hit always wins for me...

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alansa
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:30 am 
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(Man of kent @ Jun. 16 2008,09:45)
QUOTE
ah yes; i was going to mention ork Fortresses; i've made lists with them just for fun but don't tink i'd seriously consider them otherwise; too much risk at too mucj points cost; 125 pts to mount the a normal mob in a fortress versus 140pts to mount them in wagons that don't stand the chance of being blown to shreds and killing all on board after a single hit always wins for me...

Yep, I only use forts for fun, and 'cause I like the models.
How would you fix them MoK?

---

IG Super Heavy Companies I see a lot of. At least Shadowsword ones. Don't see Baneblades much though.

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Mark_Logue
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:50 am 
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Super Heavy Formations
Eldar  -Bombers
BL -bombers

These are all units that I think are great.  I think different units can suit different play styles and be much more effective depending on the way they are played.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:32 pm 
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I use Dreads and Kanz with Mobz.  They can garrison with the mob.  As Walkers, they can move in the same terrain as the boyz (except buildings, obviously) and get -1 to be hit.  They add decent ranged fire and  FF for the points.  If the mob has to go across open terrain, they can use the AVs for cover.  I don't use it frequently, but it's a very useful combination, especially if you throw in a Stompa or two to take the first AT hit(s) on 4+RA armor.

We also use Forts regularly as the cheapest way to mechanize the Orks.  You have to use lots of WEs with them, though (usually for us, that's a swarm of Forts, but some Supastompas or a Gargant can work as well).  Just 1 or 2 forts in the army gives the TK weapons something for target practice.




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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:10 pm 
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I too usually use Dreads and Killakanz. I like the CC boost they give.

Also, I regularly use Reavers.

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:47 pm 
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Ork Space ships, anyone?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:26 pm 
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I saw Killa Kans on this past tournament.

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Man of kent
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:54 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jun. 16 2008,14:32)
QUOTE
I use Dreads and Kanz with Mobz.  They can garrison with the mob.  As Walkers, they can move in the same terrain as the boyz (except buildings, obviously) and get -1 to be hit.  They add decent ranged fire and  FF for the points.  If the mob has to go across open terrain, they can use the AVs for cover.  I don't use it frequently, but it's a very useful combination, especially if you throw in a Stompa or two to take the first AT hit(s) on 4+RA armor.

We also use Forts regularly as the cheapest way to mechanize the Orks.  You have to use lots of WEs with them, though (usually for us, that's a swarm of Forts, but some Supastompas or a Gargant can work as well).  Just 1 or 2 forts in the army gives the TK weapons something for target practice.

That's a good idea concerning the dreads and kans actually; i hadn't thought of using them as cover!
My fortresses are only used alongside lots of other choice war engine units too; so plenty of stompas, and a great gargant! Give the enemy too many targets!

Sometimes i use kans etc as sacrificial pawns in front of my stompa's

Alansa: I would consider 100pts a fair deal for fortress; certainly not the 135/125!




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Man of kent
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Ditto ork spaceships.
I also rarely see Kommandos. Though they can be good for putting in a stormboyz mob that's dropping in on a Landa; infiltrate makes it easier to finish off units that end within 15cm of an enemy after losing an assault.

I agree however with Marks point, though perhaps only concerning SH formations of Shadowswords; 3x3TKd3 shots anyone!?

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Ginger
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:00 am 
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(Man of kent @ Jun. 16 2008,20:57)
QUOTE
Ditto ork spaceships.
I also rarely see Kommandos. Though they can be good for putting in a stormboyz mob that's dropping in on a Landa; infiltrate makes it easier to finish off units that end within 15cm of an enemy after losing an assault.

I agree however with Marks point, though perhaps only concerning SH formations of Shadowswords; 3x3TKd3 shots anyone!?

In a recent game against IG, I fielded a pair of Cobras which found themselves near an unharmed formation of Shadowswords / Baneblades - As he had left them grouped together at around 7 cms apart from each other, the results were not pretty (at least as far as he was concerned :p )

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Rarely used units
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:27 am 
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I think that in many cases units that don't get used are usually not that bad in and of themselves its just that there are usually alternatives that are cheaper or just better for the same point value.

So reducing the point values (as suggested in the title) isn't necessarily the best solution since this can lead to armies that then have two or more cheap useful units.

True some things just suck (Dreads for example) but many units just aren't as effective in the game as others and don't ge used. Like Baneblades as opposed to Shadowswords.

I'm one of those idiots that takes units in his army because he likes them and not because they are a better point value so I tend to take things like Baneblades and Predators. :-)

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