Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 5
  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Squats revisited, part I
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Thanks for sharing Curis, and that's very close to my own feelings in the matter. So I understand the confusion.

Yes Chris, but that would mean that the original squad got 10 (!) heavy weapons; they "only" had 4.
And I think people would balk at a stand with 1xML and 4xHB...
...on the other hand...It would feel smashing; an FF of... 3+?

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
an FF of... 3+?


An FF of 3+ with +1 extra attack. :D

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Curis
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:16 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Manchester, England
Back in 40K's second edition, every single Squat in a five-man Thunderer squad had a heavy weapon.    A five man Devastator Squad in 40K had two weapons, and get two shots in Epic, so if you want to slavishly translate 40K acros to Epic, yes, you should give them 5 heavy weapon shots.

You shouldn't represent what's on the base with the number of shots.  Else Dark Reaper stands would have more than two shots.  You only need to represent the feel of the stand with the rules, rather than slavishly follow what's on the base.  Thunderers have more heavy weapons than a Warrior stand, so they get a second Missile Launcher shot.  Leave it at that.

Thurgrim's list gives Thunderer stands 3 Autocannon shots.  In games, this was perhaps a little excessive, but worth considering.

And if you want, you can justify why Thunderers would only have the same number of shots as a Marine Devastator stand by asking what the number of shots represents.  It's not the number of weapons, but the Ballistic Skill of the firers, the targetters and other equipment and so on...

_________________
Image
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:26 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Yes, indeed that is so.
Which is why I don't like to give them a two good listing.
Thus an ML and AC each, not more.
And giving the ordinary Brotherhood two AP5+ doesn't help them that much, they would be quite vulnerable to vehicles... But once in close and personal like, that's quite something else!

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Arne
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:22 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 2:09 am
Posts: 15
Location: Sweden
I got some Squats too (just one box, some Gyrocopters and a cannon thing). I'm struggling with the same problem - how to mix the figures on the bases.

I decided to put 4 figs on each base instead of 5. Then it feels less odd to put just 4 heavies on a stand. Then I put 3 bike sized things on larger bases.

( I actually prefer to be literal with what's on the base. I want each little guy to shoot, or a selection (Dice-eyes picking a random figure?). Maybe defence could be calculated from the number of figures somehow. Stand cost too of course. Then it would feel literal while not being too time consuming (because of the precalculated values, which could be marked on the base if needed). It would also be like a metagame to pick what to put on your bases. I prefer detailed skirmish games over large battles so that's where I'm coming from. Anyways, just a rules-brainfart. )
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:07 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Yes, up to a certain extent I also feel that Epic should be WYSIWYG. But also room for optimized use of models.
Thus the proposed basing above.
It makes do with exactly ten sprues and everything gets used.

Robots then....
Robots
Type Infantry Speed 15cm  AR 5+ CC 5+  FF 5+
AutoCannon 45cm AP5+/AT6+
Power Fist Assault MW A+1
Notes: Ordered Retreat (selfpreservation routines).

What I really like for the robots are to be programmed. But I lack the article from 40k Compendium.  :(

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
I think first you need a list of Squat units, yours is incomplete. Also no new units!

You've got the sprue contents
Exo armour trikes
Multi Melta Trikes
Bikes
Exo armour Heathguard
Heathguard
Berserkers
Warriors
Missile launchers
Heavy bolters
Mole mortar (used by Imperium)
Thudd gun (used by Imperium)
Then the plastic fluff
Standards
Weapons crew

Then the other plastics
Robots
Rhinos (used by Imperium)

Then the metals
Overlord airship
Gyrocopter
Big flak gun (is that also anti spaceship? :) )
Big cannon
Land train (with bomb, cannon, inferno and transport carraiges)
Rapiers (used by Imperium)
Tarantulas (used by Imperium)
Leviathan (used by Imperium)
Colusus
Cyclops
Termite (used by Imperium)
Mole (used by Imperium)
Hellbore (used by Imperium)
Capitol Imperialis probably  (used by Imperium)
Gorgon mine layer  (used by Imperium?)
Gorgon transport  (used by Imperium as a WE, different version so new name?)
Anything else?

Then what defines Squats. Over wrought war engines, heavy weapons, slow infantry, bikes and high tech. Anything else?




_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:41 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
Simplist take on robos would be
Robots
Light Vehicles (I've always based them 1 to a stand), 10cm (tactically not as fast as living things)  Save 4+, CC5+,  FF5+
AutoCannon 45cm AP5+/AT6+
Power Fist Assault MW A+1
Notes: Fearless (robots)

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Curis
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:42 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:16 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Manchester, England
You've missed off:

Cyclops
Termite
Mole
Hellbore
Rapiers
Tarantulas
Leviathan
Possibly the Gorgon (have to check if Squats fielded these in 2nd edition Space Marine)

_________________
Image
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
I had the levianthan! :) Which gorgons and why don't you check 1st ed as well?




_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:46 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Play nice...  :blues:

I'm starting with the infantry. And all of them are covered above.
I'm not about to change the fluffy parts, so that's the last to do and mainly just adding it.
As for war engines..They take some serious thinking, so that's for later and a few at a time.

Your thought on Robots follow my own Chris. Wasn't sure if it was a good idea to put them as LV.But 10cm, LV and Fearless sound good to me.

Also please check my proposed basing at the start Chris.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
To be honest setting basing shouldn't be a priority. You have to accomodate a wide variety of existing basing styles.

And whats the master stuff? I admittably only read squat stuff from the rogue trader days but those fat chaps are exo armour squats.

I'm also of the opinion the thunders should be having a lot more firepower than the brotherhoods!

Infantry speeds
Should these be 10cm accross the board? As a query dropped off for now.

Save
Are squats as tough as Orks? If not, no save for them. Dropped off such units for now.

How about
Brotherhood
Infantry, Speed see above, Save see above, CC6+,  FF5+
Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+
Other stuff. If it gets two heavy bolter should really be FF4+.

Thunderers
Infantry, Speed see above, Save see above, CC6+,  FF3+
3 x Missile Launcher 45cm AP5+/AT6+
Dropped autocannon as no model for it
What do you think of giving them more FF due to the prepondarance of heavy weapons?

Berzerkers
Infantry, Speed see above, Save see above, CC4+  FF6+
CC not the opposite of thunderers as the squats seem more of a firepower than assault bunch. Plus means they aren't equal of marine assault troops.

Heathguard
Infantry, Speed see above, Save 5+, CC5+  FF5+
What weapons?
Leader at least. Command on the top blokes (maybe an ancestor upgrade?)

Exo armour
Infantry, Speed 10cm, Save 5+ Reinforced, CC4+  FF5+
Power axes, +1EA CC MW
Bolters

Exo armour trike
Light vehicle, 30cm, 4+ save, CC4+, FF?
The heavy bolter lance, +1EA CC, First strike
Forget what weapons it had!

Guild Bikers
Type Infantry Speed 35cm  AR 5+ CC 4+  FF 6+
With exo armour trike duplication? Change to FF?

Guild Trikes
Type Lght Vehicle Speed 35cm  AR 5+ CC 6+  FF 5+
Multi-Melta 15cm MW5+
Lowered the CC and remember these guys get MW FF shots!

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
zombocom
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:22 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569

(The_Real_Chris @ May 27 2008,18:58)
QUOTE
Save
Are squats as tough as Orks? If not, no save for them.

Squats are indeed as tough as orcs. A 6+ armour save is apropriate.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Erik M
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:29 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
... * and a couple of deep breaths later *

...you're absolutly right.
There's only five types of "infantry" in a squat force(out of five sprues); (1) warlord (five exo-armoured), (1) heartguard (five heartguard), (9) warriors (5 lasgun), (5) thunderer (ML+4xHB and (5) Berzerkers (5 berzerkers).
Unfortunatly the basic brotherhood is an additional heartguard.
Better luck with the guilders, there's even two guildmasters and a bike to spare.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
jaldon454
 Post subject: Squats revisited, part I
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:46 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 303
Location: Utah, Texas, or some Pacific Island
Jaldon here to muck things up a bit :p

I'm also of the opinion the thunders should be having a lot more firepower than the brotherhoods!


In the consolidated lists Thunderers get three shots each to the Warriors one, that's three to one in firepower with a better weapon.

Infantry speeds
Should these be 10cm accross the board? As a query dropped off for now.

We did try 10cm movement for a good long while, it didn't work well at all so we dropped it.

Save
Are squats as tough as Orks? If not, no save for them. Dropped off such units for now.

According to the old Epic TL and WH40k fluff Squats are tougher then Orks but not as tough as Marines hence a 5+ save. (Orks being 6+ and Marines 4+ 5+ sorta fits in the middle there :;):

Heathguard
Infantry, Speed see above, Save 5+, CC5+  FF5+
What weapons?
Leader at least. Command on the top blokes (maybe an ancestor upgrade?)

Depends on if they are part of a Brotherhood or a seperate formation, remember Living Ancestors are REAL OLD :blush:  It is unlikely, again according to the old fluff, that a Living Ancestor would be part of a Brotherhood, instead he leads from further away.

Have fun all and any old fluff questions just ask away I'll dig em up for ya. ( I got the old books Epic and 40k for the Squats)

Jaldon :p

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 5
  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net