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So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
Yes, its the final nail in the coffin 32%  32%  [ 13 ]
No, Epic is slowly growing round here 68%  68%  [ 28 ]
Total votes : 41

So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Visited a GW store this evening... re-interested one former player, with at least five others saying they're interested in checking it out.

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rose4100
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:20 am 
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:D

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primarch
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:52 am 
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(pixelgeek @ Apr. 23 2008,11:09)
QUOTE

(Rug @ Apr. 23 2008,02:29)
QUOTE
GW may be killing EA as a commercial enterprise, but we're the ones killing it as a game.

Fans finally getting tired of being treated like waste products and complaining about that treatment is what is killing the game?

No.

GW made this mess and people getting POed and publicly walking away from the mess is not the problems with fans. The sole source of this problem is GW and no-one else.

If you want to sit back and accept being treated like this then that is your prerogative but don't tell other people that they should also meekly accept their fate "for the good of the game".

Hi!

I, of course, agree with PG. Wholeheartedly so.

I've been around epic since the beginning. I have lead the netepic effort which is now 12 years old.

I'm not an ambassador for E:A. I don't play, nor support those rules. Heck, I don't play or support ANY official version, new or old. I play and support netepic.

Thus my actions and words reflect this. I will call to task the company and it's many false promises, inept marketing and non-existent support.

Epic fails becuase GW HAS FAILED IT. I have been on the retail side long enough to know this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

No individuals words, or an internet group for that matter can cast any more negative light on epic than what GW has done to it.

I have long since learned that "epic" is whatever an individual or group perceive it to be. Play whichever version makes you happy, its a game after all.

But I do not accept that telling certain well known, well established fact about how the company has handled epic, are somehow more detrimental to epic than what GW has done through its action.

GW dug epic's grave, its only fair they lie in it.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:01 am 
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(Rug @ Apr. 23 2008,12:30)
QUOTE
and there's no lack of minis!

Hi!

Non offense Rug, but that not a true statement.

If I want:

1. A capitol Imperials..
2. A hellbore.....
3. Chaos (staggering amount of missing models)
4. Tyranids (take your pick here too)
5. Warlord titans with FULL weapons selection
6. Chaos titan parts
7. Emperor Class titans
8. Squat army......


Those are just the top of my head.

Any game that has one or more armies (two in this case), with little to nothing available can be hardly called a "complete" line.

Compared to SM2 era availability, pickings are indeed... limited.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:08 am 
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(Tertius @ Apr. 23 2008,15:34)
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I don't consider Epic to be "alive."  However, I don't understand the bizarre need of gamers to rely on an all-knowing manufacturer to keep the games they play at home "alive."  NetEpic proved to me that the concept of "life" for a gamesystem has nothing to do with its original manufacturer.  The players keep a game alive.  My local historicals gaming group is notorious for playing 20+ year-old miniatures rulesets, with no concern for their "life" or most recent FAQ or errata.  As L4 says: DWWFY.  I personally don't care if GW updates the Epic rules.  I admit I would like it if they continued to release 6mm figures, but, since they canned the SM2/TL rules, I haven't really liked GW's 6mm sci-fi rules.

I respect Pixelgeek's announcement, but I for one, haven't supported GW in years with Epic.  Why? Because it was almost impossible to do so.  No local game store carried the figures.  I have only seen one copy of the E:A rulebook for sale in a local store, and I have only met one other local E:A player. How did I find him? On TacComms (LordInquisitor)!  My point is, to walk away from GW and Epic is kind of meaningless. From my perspective, there is nothing to walk away from.

Hi!

Excellent points Tertius!

I agree that there is nothing to walk away from. Epic has been dead as a marketable, TRULY supported game for about a decade.

I made my choice and support an "epic" independent of GW. I won't support any version GW happens to be pushing, just "because its epic".

GW, can, and has, done whatver they please with epic. It's their game and IP and their right.

My "right" as a consumer is to support... or not.

I choose not too.

I am not alone in this.

Primarch

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Legion 4
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:30 am 
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Well Exodus Wars has Khazari ...  which are very close to Squats ...  :D

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primarch
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:19 am 
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(Legion 4 @ Apr. 23 2008,21:30)
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Well Exodus Wars has Khazari ...  which are very close to Squats ...  :D

Hi!

Hehe, I know our good pals from DRM and Exodus are putting out great minis to cover what GW does not. Those two companies are smart enough to capitalize on what GW does not offer.

Of course, shouldn't GW offer minis for GW games?

I guess that's a novel idea for GW, since non-GW companies now offer minis appropriate for GW games.

We live in a crazy world....  :;):  :D

Primarch

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zap123
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:26 am 
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(asaura @ Apr. 22 2008,15:24)
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The number of Warmaster-engine titles means essentially nothing. The engine has been ported to a wide variety of settings. This fact has nothing whatsoever to do with market share.

For comparison, the Spearhead engine runs WWI, WWII and moderns. Does this mean that it is more popular than FOW, since FOW only does WWII? No, of course it does not.

Well, it does mean something.  Unfortunately that something is "this system is so generic we can port it to any setting".  I don't mind the Warmaster system at all, but I really can't see it cutting it for a Sci-Fi setting that would suit my tastes.

Having said that, I had to vote Yes because Epic is by no measure "growing" around here.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:48 am 
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There are, I think, three confused issues here:

Epic is alive
Epic is supported
GW deserves our loyalty

In reverse order...

GW deserves our loyalty

No. Moving on... ?:D ?I do think that GW have seriously dropped the ball, once again, with Epic. Sure, we could go out and promote the game, but when it feels that you are fighting the company itself, you have to wonder why. This is the second aborted attempt at Epic in a row. GW doesnt deserve our loyalty any more than any other company, and any more than we have a right for GW to sink money into a loss leading product (which Epic is not). My personal opinion is that GW have mismanaged this in a more destructive way even than third edition. But, that is not really the point. There are many players, of all GW game systems, which have walked away from a game simply due to GW business practices. That is a personal choice.

Epic is supported

Currently, I think that this is untrue. We have some races well represented, while others are non-existant with models. We have substitutes for minis, but we also have substitutes for rules, so we cant really call that support.

However, this is not a huge problem. We have plenty of talent here to keep the game going through the long winters, and I see no reason to ignore new race lists - myself, I will be transferring the Andrayada from DRM to Epic when I have the time, and continue work on Command Horizons Centaurs.

Epic is alive

This is true. Epic is very much alive, and player supported. I would even go as far as to say that anyone with a question about the rules, or who is looking for a new set of stats or force list, is better catered for with Epic (here, and other places) than they are with several main games in a variety of genres and scales. How many other games allow you to post a question about a force list and get a response within 48 hours from the guy who wrote it?


Our role here is not to promote GW, it is simply to say to all those reading this who have not picked up Epic, but want to and are afraid that there is no point - 'Go ahead. Whatever GW do, we here love the system, have considerable experience and will be here for the foreseeable future. Buy in with safety.'

The big question, and one which is down to the decision of the individual, is whether these reasons are enough to stop you playing the game.

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Markconz
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:38 pm 
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Well said Cybershadow :)

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duz.holger
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:54 pm 
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here here

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rose4100
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:01 pm 
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agreed!

I'm not going to argue if GW dropped the ball but lets look at what EA is. Its a game about the Armageddon war. Which only included three sides (space marines, guard and orks). The game is designed for this so that is most likely why those three races are still available. Am I wrong?




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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:12 pm 
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Agreed on all points, Cybershadow. And Primarch, too.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:16 pm 
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One thing has occured to me. SFC is currently the only set of 6mm rules that I would actually have to pay for!

Dirtside, EpicA, SOW and CH are all downloadable. Could be a minor factor to consider.
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primarch
 Post subject: So, will Sci-Fi Commander efectively kill Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:37 pm 
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Hi!

DS, you got PM. :;):

Primarch

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