| Purestrain |
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
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I agree with Cybershadows concerns, they are mine too. Here is my perception of the entire situation and how we should proceed.
I have been a staunch opponent of Primarch's view on this for years, and a strong supporter of 'officialdom' and SG. But obviously this shows that harsh experience and reality have modified my opinion. If you want something done you have do it yourself it seems. Yes I have just gone ahead and done it rather than waiting for some hypothetically necessary central authority or committee or whatever - blame that on my self-reliant colonial heritage perhaps. BUT - I really don't want to wait around for yet more committees and discussions when there is no guarantee that those will do any better than the ERC (though I imagine safeguards would be built into them to stop that this time) and even if they do better it means yet more time delays. Instead of spending time talking about what needs to be done I could just do what needs to be done (as I have). Also there are important differences between the EA situation and the Netepic situation that should be taken into account.
Objectively 'Netepic Armageddon' has already existed for years in actuality if not name, because Epic Armageddon has been developed by players all along right from the beginning. It is not a set of rules released and then subsequently developed in the way that Netepic was. Development procedures are already deeply entrenched. People know what needs to be done and are organised in positions to do it - they just haven't! On that point if someone falls down and won't let you help them, then someone must pick up the flag and keep running, even if the incapacitated individual cannot or will not request that you do so.
Except for selling the existing figure range (which it is important to recognise as a good thing), SG support is dead. One last achievement may be the tyranid infantry sprue. The ERC process may as well be dead at this stage - really we would be better off without them frustrating everyone. Since the 2004 revision document posted by Jervis, the ERC has managed to post ONE finished amendment. Yes they have made some progress with rules issues but where are the concrete useful results for download? Complete revised rule amendments have been promised 'by the end of the month' for years, usually every few months. If they can't even get a rule amendment pdf done, what chance is there of edited main rules which is what we really want? Continuous broken promises is not the way to go. Yes we would like the ERC to actually do its job, but if it doesn't do that (and it hasn't) then we have to (and I have). It looks like Moscovian and others have decided to take things into their own hands also.
So NetepicA already exists for all practical purposes. My main comments on some new proposals in this thread, is that stripping out GW IP is pointless, time consuming and futile. Netepic didn't strip out the IP and neither should NetepicA. GW doesn't mind Netepic and it won't mind NetepicA. Both encourage people to buy its figures and there is no point in GW attacking that.
So how much discussion and organisation is really needed? To my mind what needs to be done is clear and the only thing that needs to be decided is who does it? Here's the answer - the person who does it is the person who does it. Darwinian processes have something intrinsically powerful about them... IMO goals for interested parties here should be focused on something very much like the following:
Project A. Handbook: Core revised rules needed to play all major races in EA. I've basically done this already bar a couple of things. It's an emergency measure but quite useable and useful, and perhaps even preferable for carrying around for games. It runs at 80 pages now and will probably hit 90 or so once Tau and Tyranids are in it. Given that this is already at an advanced stage now (beyond my initial time expectations) getting this finalised ASAP would be a major boost not just for my group, but for EA in general I think. Also necessary as a baseline for new list development.
Project B. Revised Rules: As above but with all the unit details, history, and at some point pics of minis. Ie this is the complete package. Frankly this is not a priority at the current time, this fluff and background material is available elsewhere and doesn't need critical revision. However this MUST be put on the cards if NetepicA is to compare to Netepic. It's a big ask. I'm not volunteering (but I will contribute pictures...).
Expansion(s) C. EA rules for fan lists for other 40k forces. Probably multiple expansions of the type Moscovian is working on is most appropriate. Even hundreds of lists as Jervis originally dreamed is fine - provided the development work goes into them.
and... something that people should get excited about doing
Expansion D(RM): Epic Armageddon rules for Pax Arcadia, Kraytonian, Andrayada, others.
Expansion E(W): Epic Armageddon rules for Khazari, Guild etc.
About D & E. I find it increasingly surprising that so much enthusiastic time and effort is being put into 40k fan lists for non-existent miniature ranges, when growing ranges of alternative and suitable figures exist. NetEpic made Slann because there were some froggy mech figures available. Now we have wonderful and appropriate miniature ranges that slot seamlessly into the 40k background (much more easily than Tau for instance!). For example:
Andrayada - now the REAL necron power is here - not just the raiding and scouting parties - this is the story the Imperium didn't want you to know (or is it?). Are they Necrons or something higher? Lower? What is the relationship? Pages of background just begging to be written here. See Necron Codex hints on relationship between AM machine god cult and necron powers for inspiration, consider the prophecies and histories of the Necrons and their 'myths'. As an analogy consider for how long genestealers were around, and their nature, and then how the tyranids were introduced in relation to them. These are starting points.
Kraytonian - Slann. About time.
Khazari - do I even really need to say it... lets just say their kindred of a different but descriptive name bear a strong familial resemblance.
Pax Arcadia and Guild - On the fringes of empire, what amount of humanity does the Imperium not know about? Or, what Imperial or traitor forces yet remain to be described?
That's the great thing about a dark age type setting with lots of ignorance about, its very easy to stick things in (even un-40k things like Tau - which now everyone accepts as 40k but it wasn't like that when they were first introduced!). In fact from the conception of Rogue Trader itself, the little mentions of things here and there, and 'room for expansion' has been a fundamental principle of the 40k universe design - a good thing.
So that is my vision of what I would like to see and what needs to be done. With help I can get the handbook part of this finished soon. In fact even without help it will be finished soon. I predict that unless the ERC turns things around dramatically, then for the majority of players this will be seen as the source, so give input if you want to make sure it is developed correctly. I would like to see other people just pick up other items and start running too (not walking). If two people start on a single project seperately that is fine and chances are they can pull together to work on a single project (this has happened several times with EA fan lists already so there is precedence). To me the path is clear. It is just a matter of doing it. To quote a great and wise leader... "There is no try, do or do not."
Overall then this is not about NetepicA or not, but what do we do when the current NetepicA process fails. The ERC are just gamers like us with families and real life issues that intrude into time commitments to EA, but unfortunately they have been put into a position where there is no mechanisms for replacing them if they do not perform adequately. I doubt bloodletting is wanted, but basically what many people are proposing here is an overly dramatic coup by any other name. I have tried strenuously to steer clear of that approach with my handbook and suggestions. I hope the ERC can sort itself out and do more than just plod along ever so slowly. I just don't see that happening given their track record.
Everything I suggest above could be put into action now. Steps A-E above ensure EA's survival without compromising the ERC and SG. Even if the ERC and SG does nothing more (A-C). Even if SG were to stop selling figures (D-E). If the ERC does more useful work it can be incorporated easily and immediately, if not then EA will still be in glorious shape.
It's a win win solution.
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If this thing goes ahead, it will need to run as a 'because it is cool' thing, with minimal overheads. Currently, there are no outstanding costs (beyond standard web site/forum maintenance which are in hand). I am passionate about keeping this as accessible as possible!