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Chaos lists

 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:42 pm 
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www.bigcatpants.com/misc/tauepicaV2.2.doc

i changed battlesuits, and krootox to represent a single model. also changed stats for drones to represent a smaller number of models.


changed stats for crisis weapons and missile pods to AP5+/AT6+ (same stats as auto cannon) Seeker Missile changed to AP5+/AT6+/AA4+ (same as space marine heavy weapon which i assume is a missile launcher, as lascannons are AT5+, plasma cannons are AP5+/AT5+, and heavy bolters are AP5+)

Occurences of two burst cannons on air craft changed to twin linked burst cannons.

Added skyray to unit selection and also took out the x2 from the missile rack.

Added human auxiliaries. (I figure that theyre a good use for catachan models :P)

Changed markerlight/seeker missile mechanic. Changed the way Integrated options works. (It was taken out, but an equivalent was simply added to unit upgrades)

Changed stealth suits stealth ability to one without a roll to speed up game play.

Added manta interference for space craft (might be interesting...)

Anyway, im considering adding something for crisis suits saying that if you choose two of the same thing it just gets +1 instead of two shots.


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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:06 pm 
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I know that I always enjoy checking out other people's work, so here's a few pictures of some of my Titan and W.E. miniatures. ?Enjoy!

Imperial Reaver - Battle Group "Dies Irae" (2 different angles).
http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/titans/reaver1.jpg
http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/titans/reaver2.jpg

Imperial Warlord - Battle Group "Dies Irae"(2 different angles).
http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/titans/warlord3.jpg
http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/titans/warlord4.jpg

2 Eldar Phantoms.
http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/titans ... titans.jpg

3 Eldar Tempests, "The Head Hunters."
http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/titans/zpurpletemp.jpg

2 Eldar Revenant Scout Titans & 3 Tempests.
http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/titans/zrevenants.jpg

Rich

Epic 40,000: Chronicles of the Long War
http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/ChaosWeb/bc.html

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:01 pm 
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Cool stuff- I like the look of the Eldar Titans in particular- great looking smooth colour schemes... :D

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:02 pm 
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Looking at Epic it is pretty obvious the infantry are out of scale with everything else. They couldn't all cram into their designated transport vehicles and just try fitting all a Titan's crew into it's head. Just not going to work! What I was wondering was, do you think everything else is in the same scale as each other or is the entire range just mixed up sizewise?

Jackhammer


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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:27 pm 
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Hi!

This has been a long chronic problem since the line began. There is no consistency even amongst the same model through the years since infantry models have grown a little and the old baneblade is smaller than the newer one.

The most recent land raider at the games day according to accounts was way to big, but Jervis will make sure it gets scaled down.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:47 pm 
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Yes, that's been the problem since Day 1 !  But who would of thought that G/W or F/W would be inconsistent !!! :o

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:14 pm 
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Epic model scale has been very erratic and inconsistent throughout the games.

Most Epic minis have experienced size inflation (growing larger)since the begnning of the sytem as AT-1/SM-1.

For example:

Infantry:
AT-1/SM-1:
- The original plastics were very small... say 5mm, but the original metal infantry were large, say 7-8mm and fit right in with Ogryns! The original Ork pieces have very large Orks molded on them!
SM-2/TL:
- The next set of plastic sprues grew slightly in height (and detail) and the majority of plastics tend to be from this era. The Eldar sprue underwent a number of changes. The SMs grew greatly in detail.
E-40k:
- The new era of E-40k plastics greatly increased ins ize, say to around the 6.5-7mm scale, but, AGAIN, the detail was mazingly better than many of their predecessors. However, the price went up too! Essentially, we got less for more. Bummer.
E-A:
- The E-A figures, while not yet released, look to be mostly recycled E-40k figures, but the new FW resin figures are large, but relatively in good scale with the E-40k figures.
OVERALL NOTES:
- Most infantry figures in the game don't scale particularly well with their vehicular counterparts. I don't let this bother me. I just think of the pieces as representative rather than exact scale duplicates.

Vehicles:
AT-1/SM-1:
- Most vehicles tend to be at a 6-7mm scale, but some larger vehicles are definitely smaller like Ork Battlefortresses.
SM-2/TL:
- Vehicles from this era grew, for the most part, in size to around 6.5-8mm scale. L-Russes for example look much bigger than the originals.
E-40k:
- Again, the line grew to around 7-9mm in scale. Some pieces look right at home with 10mm minis.
E-A:
- The new FW pieces are the largest of all. the trend is that the minis grow over time to include more detail.
OVERALL NOTES:
- AGAIN, most vehicular miniatures don't scale particularly well with each other. I don't let this bother me. I just think of the pieces as representative rather than exact scale duplicates.

Aircraft:
AT-1/SM-1:
- Very few aircraft and mostly skimmers with no real set scale. Most skimmers such as the plastic Land Speeders are to a rough scale with the infantry on the sprues. Others like the first Squat airships are definitely on a smaller scale if the fluff holds. Most "praetorian" class large vehicles are also scaled smaller, which makes them more convenient to fit on the battlefield.
SM-2/TL:
- The first real aircraft come in with TL and they are small compared to later aircraft. I'd say they were at 5mm or possibly smaller scale. They work great as game pieces, but for anal-retentive scale mauds, they fail miserably!
E-40k:
- Aircraft grew yet again! I tend to call these aircraft at 6mm scale.
E-A:
- The FW stuff released during playtest so far are the largest aircraft yet. They scale well with the vehicles and infantry, which mean that they are HUGE! While aesthetically pleasing, they are a bit large for game pieces.
OVERALL NOTES:
- I'm not sure if I like the trend for aircraft to achieve realistic proportion and scale with the rest of the line. I'd like to play a game where two bombers don't cover the entire table!

I didn't review Titan scale in this rant.

Shabbat shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 9:00 pm 
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Hi!

Titans have gotten larger, but its not as notable, and since the original ones are plastics and later ones are metal the comparison may not be entirely fair.

Flyer scales have been wacky, just look at the different encarnations of the thunderhawk gunship. Its STILL not the right size...

Primarch

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:59 am 
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Yup ! Maksim and Primarch are correct !  I've been "Epicing" since SM1 in '90, and have most of everything that has been released since.  Much appears to be an afterthought or poorly organized ...

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:26 pm 
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Hi!

I dont think there has ever been a concerted effort on GW part to scrutinize the lines scale. I'm glad Jervis is aware of this and will try to exert some control over them. Epic is nominally 6mm, but its really closer to 7-8 mm, which is Battletech's scale.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:05 pm 
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I hope someone takes charge ! Between models coming and going, whole races disappearing, F/W just making anything that "looks cool", 3 different sizes of Infantry, etc., etc. !  Hell on Epic Yahoo, one dude thought the Thud Gun on the Dropship site was new and E40K IG were the metal ones on strips !  :l  HuH !!!?  ???  Stop the madness ! :O

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 6:42 pm 
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Hi!

Lets face it Legion4, not a whole lot of people care about this issues besides the few of us on this forum. As long as the scale is consistent within the new wave of releases they wouldn't care how they stand up to the older models, perhaps to get older players to buy newer models? From GW? Say it isn't so.... }:)

As for keeping track of things, well, dont hold your breath, you may die of lack of oxygen.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:00 am 
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The cold hard facts in the G/W-F/W Epic universe ...  :(  :{

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:00 am 
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Hya all!!

Well, I have been following asome stuff on epic lately, and even if I don't know the rules of the game (at least yet) in fact it is appealing to me more than regular 40k lately. Well, in any case I wanted to make a comment/question on the issue of tanks.

In most reports and army lists I have seen around I have noticed that in a lot of armies there is quite a large number of "big tanks (baneblade, land raider, gargants-even if I think this would be titan in category-, and the like) while regular line tanks are ...scarce. I see less Leman Russes and predators than I think would be fluffy. In fact I failed to see a single predator so far and rhinos being more than scarce (whirlwinds and speeders are there, though).

Do those other tanks and transports suck big time? and if so, why? IMO they should be exactly that: transports and line tanks, not rare sightings over land raiders (that most of the time are only 20 or less strong units per chapter, mind you). The same goes for leman russes, even if I have seen way more russes when compared to superheavy tanks than when predators are compared to raiders. It seems weird for me to see that many land raiders and terminators around, dunno. Anyone playing with a company's army?  17-20 marine stands + command stand (21 total) + support stuff (predators, whirlwinds, speeders, bikes).

Dunno, I suppose it simply shocked me to notice that :)

Cheers,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Chaos lists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:06 am 
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I agree. I much prefer tank charges with loads of transports and support tanks. I think that it is simply the minis, people like the super-heavies. I would rather get a handful of or Predators or other support tanks than a larger one.

However, I would classify the Land Raider as a 'tank of the line' rather than a 'large tank'. It is bigger than most, but it is still only a transport for two stands.

That is one reason why I put together my Stealer Epic force, loads of Chimera transports and support tanks and nothing larger. Same for the Chaos Crucible of Chaos rules... notice a pattern?  ???

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