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OGBM Feedback
nealhunt
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:30 pm 
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Hey.  I'd like to hear anyone's experiences with this list, especially if you have tried to powergame it.

Since I know many people on here do not check the SG boards, I'll copy over some comment from there to get things started.
=========

PG has sort of begged off the OGBM list. He and I have talked about it and he sort of gave me the go-ahead to push the list forward but there's nothing official at the moment.

Chroma offered some suggestions over on Epicomms based on his experience. I've also exchanged some info with PG.

My ideas would still be very similar to the ones in that thread you linked [the old SG forum].

====

Tellyportas should use the Planetfall rules, as Teleport is far too precise and open to abuse.

I have an idea on how to structure a "free planetfall" rule for Roks. Essentially, they would plot just like a current planetfall, i.e. both the turn and location they will arrive, then planetfall and take their action all as part of a single activation. Just like a normal activation the action would have to be announced before the initiative roll to activate. It would be very much like an air assault, but the free planetfall is much more erratic. Because you have to declare your action before you activate and determine scatter, you may end up in a completely worthless position. - That's obviously just a rough concept for now.

I still have the sense that Zzap Forts and Trakta Kannons are not necessary. They are a nice, flavorful idea on paper but in actual game play they don't seem to make any difference compared to a Gunfort w/Mek or Big Gunz, respectively. In addition, I have balance concerns. The trakta kannon gives up -1FF for Disrupt and I think that's a deal for the Orks. I have also expressed concerns over massed Zzapguns for Orks in general and the Zzap Fort makes that an even cheaper option than formerly (although in this list it might be less of an issue). Finally, there are miniature considerations in that neither has a dedicated mini; a small point, but still worth considering.

I think that the Blasta and Kustom Gargants are too similar. The list only needs one platform to fill in the gap between Supastompas and Gargants. My idea was to have a single DC6 platform with 2 weapon loads - a BP/high rate of fire version for the Blasta and a Zzap Gun/Mek Weapon version for the Kustom. Since they would both still be eligible to take a Big Mek upgrade there would still be plenty of opportunity to customize them further. This would keep the concept of both gargants but would simplify the army list and keep it as a single stat line to remember.

The Mek Weapons need some work to get them balanced. In particular, I think that the Indirect Fire should not be an option. The list already incorporates Big Bommaz if you want "deep strike" barrages and blowing things up where you can't see them is just plain not orky.

Of course, there should probably be some minor point revisions also.

===

In floating these ideas, pretty much the only real pushback I've gotten is on the Zzap Forts. I don't know why people seem to like them so much more than just taking a Gunfort with a Mek upgrade, but they obviously do. No one has said that they felt that the effect on game play was significant so I can only guess that it is based on the "on paper" feel that the list has. In any case, of the above ideas it is probably the one I care least about.

Neal Hunt
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nealhunt
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:49 pm 
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To bump this and to float another idea...
=======

The more I've thought about it, the more I think the Zzap Fort and indeed the entire Fortress Mob don't really fit in this list.  The list is focused on Walkers.  A mob of Fortresses is a distraction in the theme.

Plus, I'm unconvinced that it provides anything needed in the list.  There are air assault and Rok options for penetrating enemy territory (including the ability land dreads/kanz).  There are plenty of different mobz can be mounted for speedy response, even a fast transport "gargant" in the Krawla.  The Gargants themselves have plenty of access to Zzap guns and other heavy/MW/TK armament.

Basically, I'm struggling with what purpose fortresses serve in the list.

Right now, I'm leaning heavily towards taking out the Fortress Mob and replacing it with a Stompa Mob (and yes, I have a couple ideas for distinguishing the supastompa/stompa/snappa mobz from each other).

=========

Chroma:  You've posted more batreps on OGBM than anyone else and I know you've been playing it since the first version or close to it.  I'd be especially interested in hearing your feedback.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:28 pm 
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I agree that they could be dropped from the list, but I feel that they provide a bit of flavour.

This is an Ork WE list and these are the supposedly most common WE the orks field.

Tim

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:37 pm 
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I like the idea of replacing Forts with Stompas. It seems a better fit for this list, since it concentrates on walkers.

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Reaver
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:24 pm 
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Whenever I've used the list, I've only ever done a pure walkers army. I'd be happy to see fortresses dropped. I also agree about merging the Kustom and Blasta Gardgants. I'm not even that keen on the Krawlers.
On a personal level, I'd like to see a simplified list, but with customisable weapons options like the AMTL list, or better still points costs for weapons like Evil and Chaos' Titan weapons pdf.
I think this list should be Stompas, Gargants and more Gargants, it's Orkimedes' answer to the Titan legions and so should be big walkers all the way.
Just my opinion though!
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nealhunt
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:27 pm 
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so they should be a little bit better than Soopagun, Zzap gun, or Megachoppa.

===========

2x Grot Guided Missile
Unlimited
MW3+
TK(D3), One Shot, Macro Weapon, No line of fire is required to fire a Grot Guided Missile

Gatling Kannon
45cm
6 x AP4+/AT5+
Fixed Forward Arc

Mega Lobba (Note: no indirect fire)
75cm
D3+3BP
Fixed Forward

Ripper Fist
(base)
Assault Weapon
Macro Weapon, Extra Attacks(+D3), Titan Killer
AND
45cm
2x AP4+/AT5+
Fixed Forward Arc

Snapper
(base)
Assault Weapon
Macro Weapon, First Strike,  Extra Attacks(+1), Titan Killer
OR
Small Arms
First Strike, Extra Attacks (+4)

Soopa Lifta Droppa
45cm
MW4+
Titan Killer (D6)
Fixed Forward Arc


Still not sure what to do with Deth Kannon and Mega kannon.

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Honda
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:09 pm 
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Still not sure what to do with Deth Kannon and Mega kannon.



Not being too familiar with the list, could one substitute for a Volcano cannon type of weapon and the other some other type of large BP barrage weapon? If these equivalents are redundant, then just make them counts as...

As I see Orks, it seems like they revolve around a few good things that are very effective and then maximize on those options. Fluff-wise, their meks can arrive at a solution from many diffierent paths, but at the end of the day, the weapon tends to be something that makes a lot of noise and causes a lot of damage...when it works.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:48 pm 
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There are already several options for TK weapons that are roughly similar to the Volcano Cannon (Lifta Droppa, Soopa Lifta Droppa, Zzap Gun, and Grot Missiles) and there are options for a MW and non-MW barrages (Soopagunz and MegaLobbas).

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nealhunt
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:35 pm 
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I'm putting the final touches on OGBM1.8.  I decided to go with a walker focus, which I know is not without controversy.

I'm calling for final input before this version goes to the vault, but I hope to get it to Andy before Monday.

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Chroma
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:45 pm 
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(Hena @ Jan. 05 2007,14:41)
QUOTE
Actually. One might think to change the wording on Grot guided missile to be indirect instead of no LOS required (as is proposed to IG deathstrikes)?

I think the Grot-guided missile is okay with the "no LOS required" option as it actually has a pilot...  the poor bugger!  How often are Orks going to sustain fire to actually use indirect fire anyway?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:18 pm 
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I did a lot of thinking about how that would play out in actual games, considering the time at which they are used, likely orders for the gargant at the time, effectiveness versus Zzap guns and so forth.  I think it's pretty comparable in application to the damage expected from a Zzap gun over the course of a game.  It's not a done deal but I'd like to see some results before I downgrade it further.

And I agree that Orks should be using Sustained Fire whenever possible.

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:56 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jan. 05 2007,18:18)
QUOTE
?It's not a done deal but I'd like to see some results before I downgrade it further.

And I agree that Orks should be using Sustained Fire whenever possible.

I dont use grot missiles at all. Maybe because I cant see its effectiveness. I should probably try it out. And I just had an idea how... Just wait and see, Hena!

I like to play "risk and reward"-style. That is why I sustain even without supreme with my gargs. (If I fail acivation, I can still shoot a lot (without -1 from doubling))

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nealhunt
 Post subject: OGBM Feedback
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:24 pm 
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Revised list sent to Andy.

As is typical, right after I sent it I spotted a pricing typo.  Chroma also pointed out that with the shift in focus to walkers that starting out the 2.0 numbering series was probably appropriate.  I sent a revised, 2.0 version to Andy but I have no idea whether 1.8 or 2.0 will hit the vault.

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