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Siege Wardens

 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:21 am 
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Hi all,
Having started a new Epic army and a WHFB one, I was itching to start a 40K army. Although I have SM and Chaos armies already, I was thinking of getting a new one assembled and painted. Why? Because I do not have the new Tau, Nid or Eldar rules, the IG and Orks would take me forever, and I feel like a rush job (i.e. not mre than 7 years... ?:p ), and I'm guessing that the DE and Necron rules might be updated, so I'm leaving these for later. As for the Inq: well, I can only field these with SM or IG troops, as I have very few sisters or Grey Knights - oh, didn't I say I do not wish to buy any more 40K models than I already have? ?:;):

So - for something a bit strange but reliable, I've taken the tried and tested Iron Warrior way - with a twist: I'm using the IW army list for an Imperial chapter. This means that I get loads of Vets and a basilisk too - but no Land Speeders or Scouts or Attack Bikes or Whirlies. And not more than 1 Vindy - they lost most of ?theirs in a disasterous siege, and replacements are slow in coming. To make up, they get the odd Basilisk, fitting in with the IW fluff.
I also have to restrain the Chaos bit - no daemons (but that's an IW rule anyway - in my case, no daemon princes or weapons either); no chaos marks (again, an IW rule); no psychic stuff, daemonic gifts, or gifts of the gods. All weapons and wargear can be taken, except for the Personal Icon and spiky bits; the Chaos hound becomes a bionic hound, and the Chaos SM bike an SM bike (well, d'oh!). And (sigh) no Defiler.
I kept the possessed, though ?:p - in this case, they're similar to the Inquisition arcoflagellants, and are raving bionic psychos.
Vehicle upgrades permitted are:
dirge caster, transformed to an Imperial vox caster
dozer blade
extra armour
havoc launcher (an old weapon still used by these SMs)
pintle combi-bolter
searchlight
smoke launcher
Anyway, it boils down to an Iron Warriors army with Imperial colours and some extra-added restrictions - all perfectly legal!

A future version would use a handful of SMs as champions of an Imperial equivalent to an L&D army.

Troops identified so far - 15 SMs, including the odd lascannon; 3 termies, a couple of techmarines, a Basilisk and a Land Raider.

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:49 pm 
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Interesting idea, Van. What color scheme are you going to use?

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:03 am 
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Van, you know you want to add the FW Vindicator to your list.  There's no such thing as too many Ordnance blast markers.  'Typical' IW=Vindi, Basilisk, Defiler, and Pred or Land Raider, bunch of Oblits, and enough troops to take the breach, led by a moderately-tooled CC Lord.  Personally, I don't like the Basilisk, as the 36" min range for indirect fire is a bad thing, but it's your Army.  What point level are you building towards?

Your choices are going to be interesting.  Can't use Marked Troops, termies don't have the right weapons, No Obliterators.  You could add Raptors (turning your Possessed into 'almost-Raptors' might be better, with fewer 'Demonic' effects).  

Assuming about 1500 points, you are going to want about 35-45 Marines, with the LR, Basilisk, and a Vindicator.  Maybe a few more.  I really don't see a Siege Chapter using a lot of bikes, those are more knights-on-horseback (trying to break the siege) than maintaining a siege.  

I can see some really interesting potential conversions, like Havocks dug-in to firing positions, and the rest of the force advancing across no-man's land to the breach in the walls, led by the 'Chosen' in the Land Raider, with a Vindicator backing them up.

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:56 am 
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(vanvlak @ Aug. 13 2006,11:21)
QUOTE
I kept the possessed, though  :p - in this case, they're similar to the Inquisition arcoflagellants, and are raving bionic psychos.

I assume these are the unfortunates who didn't survive the Zygote implantation process with their sanity intact?

They were then "modified" to serve the chapter anyway in brutal close assaults so common in trench & siege warfare.  :)

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:07 am 
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Hi Lion,
thanks for the ideas - I was interested in the Basilisk just for the fun of having an SM-crewed one! But that's me, I build armies for fun and then persist in losing every single game.....
Your proto-IW army fits exactly the local school of thought - I remember one amry with 21 lascannons.... not counting Obliterators. Ow. I won't go to such extremes (heck, I only have two lascannon marines!), but will include Possessed just for the sake of converting bionic-possessed thingies.
The dug-in Havocs sounds good - I was thinking of different ways of representing Havoces, such as mounting weapons on platforms etc. And eventually I might even resurrect the old Tarantula and Rapier and Mole mortar ideas - not Codex, of course, but a lot of fun to build as I do not have the original models. And think of the savings - a 4-barrel lascannon would replace a whole Havoc squad!
The Raptors.... hmm..... good point. Thinks......  the possessed + flight = Raptors is a good idea. Have to think about this.

The bikes - well, the attack are limited if 4 heavies are taken; and I agree, no place here. Maybe I should just scratch them off the list entirely.

DS - the troops will have a simple black + drybrush scheme - quick and easy. Trooper no.1 is ready and waiting for a photo session. I'm still unsure whether to take the same approach with the vehicles or not - will decide - eventually.....
Thanks for the support guys.

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:19 am 
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Here's your first look at a Siege Warden - the effect I want is that of a shady, obscure, big guy type which can only barely be seen in the thick dust or during a night siege.
The colours don't show up at all here - a bit cartoon-art, if I may be so bold. I love this impressionist stuff - mainly because it's easy!
If you look carefully, you'll notice the seal is drybrushed in its appropriate colours of dark red and white too.  :p

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:20 am 
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Here's a close up. NO, he's not drybrushed in pink.  :p

I have to decide about transfers too  I don't feel they go with the look, as they'd be too crisp - and I only want the eyes to be that sharp in contrast - any opinions?

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:15 am 
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(Mojarn Piett @ Aug. 14 2006,08:56)
QUOTE

(vanvlak @ Aug. 13 2006,11:21)
QUOTE
I kept the possessed, though  :p - in this case, they're similar to the Inquisition arcoflagellants, and are raving bionic psychos.

I assume these are the unfortunates who didn't survive the Zygote implantation process with their sanity intact?

They were then "modified" to serve the chapter anyway in brutal close assaults so common in trench & siege warfare.  :)

These things are not spoken of where the Inquisition can listen  :(  :p

Not a bad idea.....  :D

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:38 pm 
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Real Cool idea.


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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:36 pm 
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Van, I really like the look of Trooper No. 1.

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:52 pm 
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Depending on what you have available, I would suggest only black transfers.  Identifiable on close inspection, but gives away nothing in low visibility conditions.  

Or if black transferes aren't available, could limited icons be painted on in black?

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:24 pm 
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(consectari @ Aug. 14 2006,17:52)
QUOTE
Depending on what you have available, I would suggest only black transfers. ?Identifiable on close inspection, but gives away nothing in low visibility conditions. ?

Or if black transferes aren't available, could limited icons be painted on in black?

They could, but I couldn't :p
Ok, what I mean is that I couldn't paint an emblem - let alone several -to save my life!
Black markings would be an idea..... thanks.  :cool:

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:14 am 
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Van, stencils are your friend! ?I'm going to use stencils for my 'tactical' Dark Angels, and a GS stencil is a breeze to make. ?Take a basic, unpainted Marine, and paint dishsoap on his shoulder pad. ?Press a ball of green stuff over the shoulder pad, and let it harden completely. ?Draw your pattern on the GS, then take a brand-new hobby knife to cut out the shape. ?Pop the GS off the 'dummy' (since there's a good chance you'll cut the shoulder pad), place it on your new inductee, and paint away. ?If you're really good, you can make multiple stencils that will overlay each other for multicolor markings.

I'd suggest Vallejo Cavalry Brown for your 'red' colors, either Vallejo Stone (looks like parchment) or Light Ghost Gray for your whites, and a dark gray like Euro 1 Gray (Vallejo Eorupean, IIRC, maybe Gunship, Gray) for your 'black' colors.

Save your last drybrushed weathering pass (the 'dust' color) for after you paint the markings, to help reduce the 'glare' from the stencils. ?As a side effect, it can also partially highlight the edges of the markings, depending on how high your stencils turn out.

What I'd do is to make some serious short-ranged FF marine squads (roughly 4), and a couple bolt pistol/CCW squads. ?Add your HQ and tooled-for-CC 'chosen' in the Land Raider, the Vindicator.

If you're interested, this discussion on the Bolter and Chainsword has some really good ideas on how a real 'siege' aremy would be organized, about the middle of page 3, and on to page 4.

Here's one of the comments:

(Khaardun @ from the Bolter & Chainsword forum)
QUOTE
I guess I should have my say on the comment about siege warfare (with the iron warriors being attackers)

I have been reading the storm of iron book (by graham mcneil if anybody does not know) and not only that, but I have been studying wars in history, most notably sieges and trench warfare. With my (rather lack of) knowledge on these war situations, as well as the Index Astartes article and the storm of iron book, I came up with a template for my iron warriors army. by what I know, the bulk of troops would be all close combat, mostly armed with close range weapons (such as flamers and meltaguns). I would use 4 squads armed for CC while two more would be armed for long range support.

Heavy support would be the same, the only two units which would be for long range would be at least a vindicator and a dreadnought maybe. Havocs would follow the same idea with being armed with flamers and meltaguns to carry on with the idea and principles of a siege attacking force. the same can apply for the dreadnoughts, dreadnoughts can also be fitted for siege warfare as well (the forge world dreadnought arms show this).

That only leaves the elites, for obliterators, I only field a unit of 3, with the rest of the elites being possessed and chosen.

with this in mind, I have come up with the main principles of a siege attack force, which is also true to the Iron warriors background (I refuse to call it fluff). This also shows as an alternative to the Iron warriors, but still keeps the spirit of them being an army of siege specialists. But as for the 9 obliterator armies I have seen, I accept them, because like what so many people have said, if you can use the armies advantages well, then you should be alright. But in the end, its not the winning of the game that counts, its the taking part and enjoying the game that does.

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 Post subject: Siege Wardens
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:48 am 
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That stencil busines is great Lion - thanks! Terrific idea :D  :D
And thanks for the link too. Sounds a lot like a trench warfare assault army - I think I like it. Now the question is - what troops do I have in store? As I reported elsewhere, I'm reordering all the model stuff today, so I'll be able to ID what can be used.
Thanks agan Lion  :D

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