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E:A  Rise of the Dracon

 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:35 pm 
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Sure, the change in name is fine. I had them as Kroxigores originally but someone pointed out that Kroxigores are melee-oriented so didn't make much sense as heavy-weapons troops. I figured the heavy weapons troops would  be the most experianced and well-learned of the Saurus (Those who had had time to master the art of using truly long-ranged weapons).

Battlescreens are neat, I think. Effectively everything hits the same. I'm a little worried about the endurance of the unit when combind with the Regeneration ability (I may remove Regen from them). But with proper pricing it probably won't be an issue. I was thinking in the 750 point area for the Arkelash and around 950 for the Temple. The others cheaper at around 350 or so (They're very very tough to kill, but lack massive offensive power that most super-heavies have).


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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:27 pm 
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(consectari @ Jul. 26 2006,17:59)
QUOTE
Not that I'm complaining, but do you think Scarred ones can go back to being Oldbloods?

Except Oldbloods are characters...


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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:49 am 
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Sorry, my mistake. ?So Scar Veterans aren't characters? ?

If Oldbloods are characters, but saurus can't have leader ability, what would they have?

Guess I'm just not a big fan of the name Scar veteran or Scarred Ones.





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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:56 pm 
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As Oldbloods are 28mm army leaders, I thought they'd be relatively similar to SM captains - you can stick a few into a 6mm army.  Scar-veterans are heroes - further down the ranks - so there'd be more of them.  Though I dunno about sticking them all together into their own formation.  But then this isn't a literal translation of the FB army book.

I can't remember Ilushia's stats (which page are they on?), but I suggested Inspiring and Fearless, which seem to be the closest interpretation of an FB Oldblood - barring better CC and save abilities.


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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:04 pm 
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Stats are on pages 6 and 9. For the Scar Veterans I was thinking they might be a secondary option for a Supreme Commander instead of the Slanni, for those who don't like giant toad-things. The Oldbloods could be anything really... Formation leaders, formations themselves, I'm not really sure how to do them right. Inspiring seems about right. Dunno about Fearless.


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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:54 am 
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A literal translation isn't necessary, but since any formation could just be called a different type of Saurus, I don't think there's any reason to upset any long time Lizardmen fans.  

It will work out the same either way.

I do like the idea of having a character like Oldbloods though.

Vermis, I don't recall you weighing in on Ilushia's summaries and formation sizes.  
How do they feel you you?

Just wanted to float one more thing out there.  As long as we're keeping skimmers in the army, anyone interested in changing the Terradon transport from a flier to a skimmer?  Just a thought.  Seemed cool to me.

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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:13 am 
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The switch for the Terradon could be an option.  I really think that transports should transport a lot of troops not just 1 or 2 stands but more like 6 - 10.

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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:07 am 
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(consectari @ Jul. 28 2006,03:54)
QUOTE
Vermis, I don't recall you weighing in on Ilushia's summaries and formation sizes. ?
How do they feel you you?

They go 'woosh' over my head. :D
Much as I put my oar in, my head starts to shut down when too many game mechanics are discussed.

At my first glance, things seemed fine to me. ?But I'll go back over and tell you if anything disturbs me too much.

EDIT: still looks good. ?Just a few minor matters.

*Is it still possible for AA to have that aircraft/skimmer malfunction effect I mentioned? ?Or is that what MW replaces?

*The naming of some units still bugs me a little, but I don't think we need more confusion about that.

*Terradons: aircraft?  Any minis in mind?






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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:33 am 
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Excuse me from not posting earlier. This is the fluff present at RT about the Slann:

History

Of all the races of the Galaxy Slann claim to be, and it's most possible they are, the oldest of all. The days of their bright empire are waning, but nevertheless they still are one of the most enigmatic of the known species. During the highest days of their empire they discovered and nurtured lots of primitive creatures, forcing evolutionary processes in countless worlds, eliminating or moving dangerous species and planting the life seeds in various planets. During millenia they experimented and played with the Galaxy, possibly creating most of the actual species. But their empire began to collapse, their civilization slowed down, and their genetic experiments were abandoned for the most part.

The Slann retired from their active paper in the galaxy's whereabouts, falling into a long sleep of unconcienzousness and introspection. It seems that they didn't suffer any kind of phisical conflict, there are no registers of destructive wars of natural catastrophes. It seems that their racial motivations suffered a sudden and drastic change, which made them lose interest in material conquests. Maybe the Slann discovered something still unknown to the other races, perhaps some kind of universal secret, spiritual truth or a supreme mystical revelation. In the fields of physical philosofy ans mystical technology slann are the unparalleled masters.

Slann evolved from an anphibious race, and nowadys it's still possible to see some rests in their anatomy. Their hands and feet are long and membranous, their skin cold and ever humid, their heads big with protruding eyes. They feel at home in water, and they are able to breath the oxygen contained within it (and within any poorly oxygenated atmosphere). Slann vary wildly in colour - green and blue are common, yellow is well represented and there are lots of stranger combinations of colours, even albines. The more brightly pigmentated Slann are very extrovert people, with a great talent in some filed of science or art. Skins are commonly marked in some ways (spots, lines, etc). In some Slann worlds (specially in the primitive ones)this marks represent tribal divisions. Height is almost constant, reaching 2 meters, with females being taller and bulkier.

Slann inhabit an area north of the galactic pole, living in a number of prosperous, closer planets. Their society stands closed to outsiders, but it seems fairly homogeneous...

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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:22 pm 
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Right now I was thinking the Vertex Dropship for the Terradons and the human Drop Ship for the Drop Ship. I like the idea of their aircraft carrying relatively few individuals unless you're fielding the big ones. One of the Drop Ships can carry as much as 3 Terradons and is about as durable as 8 normally. So it's a choice between lower point-cost or greater safety for your troops between them. Making the Terradon a skimmer is possible, but the idea behind it was to be an aircraft which could dump off a unit of Saurus Assaulters and then act as a backup bomber for the army afterwards. I'd have to come up with a completely different set of stats to make it work as a skimmer, and I'd rather not have the list have transports outside their teleporters and the Great Temple on the ground.


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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:35 pm 
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Yuber Okami: This is the fluff present at RT about the Slann


It might be hard to fit this in with the current 40k fluff without some tweaking.

If the Slann described in your post are the OO, then GW now states their decline began due to a devastating war with the Necrons.  

Also that the OO have all died off.  

Now if the Slann could be the FIRST children of the OO (rather than being the OO), they might be sort of like "lab assistants".   Then they may have done some of the actual genetic manipulations.  They would be highly inteligent, masters of physical philosophy and mystical technology.  Currently, GW "suggests" Slann are the OO, but it's not set in stone, and I think the above format is the only explaination of how we could have actual Slann in the army.  

As I've said before, after millions of years, who's to say they aren't getting the Masters and their assistants mixed up.

The fluff you presented is similar to the Slann in WFB.  They are brilliant, enlightened beings who have gone into a meditative hybernation.

This is what we are using for our Slann.  Occasionally one awakens, likely with some great purpose needing his attention, and leads an army.  

As far as Slann cadre, unless I'm missing something, I can't imagine these enlightened beings forming into groups of warriors themselves.  

Your stats are similar to several types of Saurus troops we've developed.

Whether Skinks and Saurus are genetic descendants, the result of genetic manipulation of the Slann race or distinct species has not been determined.  I'd prefer to keep them all as descended from Slann in some way.

This would fit in with Slann (Saurus) from primitive Slann worlds forming into Cadres of warriors.

So basically we already have a unit with a set of stats close to what you have suggested.  Background could be manipulated to fit "closer" to RT fluff.  

Most stuff has not actually been named yet, so no reason a formation of Saurus can't be a "Slann Cadre" or even each army being refered to as a Slann Cadre, though the specific army we are working on would be "The Servants of the Old Ones" Slann Cadre.

If this isn't satisfactory, feel free to present a more detailed idea of what you had in mind.

Thanks for the input.

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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:49 pm 
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QUOTE from Consectari:
Vermis, I don't recall you weighing in on Ilushia's summaries and formation sizes. ?
How do they feel you you?

Vermis: ?They go 'woosh' over my head.


I know, this is how I feel. ?They look highly reasonable to me, but when it comes to actual viability, I'm no rules lawyer.

I get the distinct feeling, this is going to have to become the Ilushia show, with you and me hammering out the final details of the names and backgrounds (just to look like we're contributing).

*Is it still possible for AA to have that aircraft/skimmer malfunction effect I mentioned? ?Or is that what MW replaces?

I had forgotten about the grav effect of some of their weapons. ?MW would have the correct effect, but we were really only wanting that to effect skimmers. ?I just don't have a clue if there is any way to do variable effects based on target type. ?

Any thoughts Ilushia?





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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:53 pm 
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I'd rather not have the list have transports outside their teleporters and the Great Temple on the ground


Copy that, Ilushia.  
I just lovedthis skimmer so much, I wanted to try to include it.





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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:03 pm 
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According to the current fluff material I can find about the Slann in WHF, they're supposed to be the favored children of the Old Ones. One of the books out there, I believe, talks about the Old Ones and implicates that they are not, in fact, wiped out. But are trapped in the Warp and no longer able to take physical bodies or interact directly with the physical world. But I've not read the book my self (only had someone else talk with me about it) So I'm unsure how accurate that is to the current fiction...

On the gravity-effects of weapons: I'd rather not get too complicated. The ability for MW seems appropriate, since they had very very advanced technology being able to punch through heavy armor easily seems right. Now... We could do something like the old-school Lifta-Droppa but I suspect that would require entirely too many special rules and be really weird under the current system! The 'only good against skimmers' bit doesn't make much sense to me... If anything's going to be able to recover from having gravity changed around it skimmers will. I mean, a skimmer surely has a better chance to survive that then, say, a Land Raider being turned over by it, or a Leman Russ being lodged on one side, doesn't it? Infantry would simply be crushed to death under the power of the weapon, or hurled across the battlefield with such force as the impact would kill them. Skimmers, being anti-gravity vehicles typically by nature, seem like the one group I'd expect to be very good at resisting the effects of a gravity-manipulating weapon.


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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:42 pm 
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If anything's going to be able to recover from having gravity changed around it skimmers will.


I don't know exactly what Vermis had in mind, but what I was thinking for the gravatic weapons wasn't so much moving things around and turning them over, but that it functioned very much like a force weapon.  

The main difference being, since it was based on a gravitational field, when it came NEAR skimmers it had a tendancy to cause them to crash, even if it didn't actually hit them.

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