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Changes for version 4.4.1

 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:42 pm 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 16 May 2006 (22:27))
The intention is that the Master Shaper is included in the transport capacity, and I will clarify that with the next version. Thanks.

When is the next version coming out? I'm attending a tournament on June 11, and will not try to use airborne Kroot if the latest playtest list is 4.4. I don't want to tell someone that "the intent of the designer is that..."  :D


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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:06 pm 
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I dont think that version 4.4.1 will be out in the near future.. whether it is released in the next four weeks is currently unknown (but I would think that it would not be out by then).

Sorry.

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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 9:14 pm 
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Quote (Hena @ 17 May 2006 (20:36))
Don't worry asaura. I'm pretty sure that the judges in the tourney don't mind that little change :D.

I don't worry about the judges. I just don't want to pull a judge+forum post on this one. A given tournament player only has access to the 4.4 list and may have noticed what I noticed. While I'd certainly let anyone else get away with it, I won't try to do it myself.


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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:25 pm 
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Quote (Hena @ 24 May 2006 (19:56))
CS, I don't know if you noticed but there was a question about the drones and disrupt (in the battle report thread). Mainly how it works. Three options was presented

1) Cause BM for every two hits
2) Cause BM for every hit and kill (same as everyone else when fired with disrupt weapons)
3) Cause BM for each hit that does not kill, but only 1 BM for every second kill

Any comments?

Option 2 isn't correct, in general. Disrupt weapons place 1 blast marker when hit, but none if they kill. They don't generate 'extra' blast markers, it just doesn't matter if they actually kill anything or not. The last line of 2.2.2 Disrupt specifies that units hit by Disrupt weapons which fail their armor saves then are removed as casualties but do not add a second blast marker to the unit.


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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:11 am 
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Hena,

Things that are immune to BM have set the precident already... i.e. bugs and deamons.

Thus, unit special rules supercede game rules.

Therefore, your version 1) would have accurate currently, that is, each 2 hits equate to 1 BM.

This is *my* group's understanding anyway.

Clarification is probably warranted one way or the other, so I'm glad you brought it up.

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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:38 pm 
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Quote (asaura @ 17 May 2006 (21:14))
(Kroot in an Orca with 4.4 rules) While I'd certainly let anyone else get away with it, I won't try to do it myself.

Oh, who am I kidding?? Of course I want to try airborne Kroot! Watch out, Hena!


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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:21 pm 
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so 11.6. i have to shoot those airbornes down... ;)

see you at the tournament asaura.

-aNt-

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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:31 pm 
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Quote (thurse @ 21 April 2006 (11:17))
- All support crafts dont last bery long in my games, as everybody sees them. I think the rule should be modified ( idea : reduce the range of weapons firing on them, as they are supposed to be high in the sky. It might make them less vulnerable )


Can I ask how this is possible? So far I've come up against the Manta 4 times and in these encounters I managed to do a total of 1 point of damage. Hardly what I would call vulnerable. The best effort was to fly the executor Landing Module of the Dark Eldar right up to it and blast with everything it had. Second best was to march a squat of necrons up to it. They managed to last long enough - due to their tough metal skins - to take a few pot shots at it. To me it seems to have to much fire power, the delfector shields to damn hard to penetrate and with the support craft it has line of fire on everything that moves. Fighting against the Tau with a close combat army, tends to end up as a  series of suicide runs to get even close to launch an assault.  

Personally I'm not in favour of the support craft rule especially combined with the firepower and the amount of DC it has...


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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:22 pm 
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Invid, booked or finished lists don't seem to have near the trouble your work in progress DE force does. I think the author of the statement your quoting was referencing lists that are a bit further along in the design process.

At least, that's how my experience matches the original author's. Support Craft tend to be quite fragile and suseptable to enemy fire.

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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:26 pm 
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In the two games which Evil and Chaos may be doing a bat rep for it survived the first broken (facing enemy by itself) and the second untouched.

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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:07 am 
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I think the author of the statement your quoting was referencing lists that are a bit further along in the design process.

Who knows what I was thinking on april the 21st!

In fact I wasn't clear in my post. I meant that with the support craft rule, the moray are very fragile and breaks easily, especially when fielded alone.
Concerning the Manta, I don't think it's fragile, but I don't have enough game experience with it. So, I'll shut up.

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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:12 am 
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General nitpicks:

I'd like a minor tweak to the Stingray fluff text, just so it sound more like the rest of the unit descriptions.  When I'd written the fluff for JimmyGrill, I'd just come up for air from reading Janes for too long.  The discussion (and proposed text) is here.

The AX10 doesn't carry any troops, so why does the Critical effect mention units on board?

Adjust the Contingent/Cadre unit classification to match the Tau Empire codex.  Call the current Contingents 'Mission Groups,' as a current Cadre+upgrades describes a 'Cadre' from C:TE pretty well.  A Contingent, or possibly a Battle, would be the entire E:A army.  Maybe talk to JJ about Cut&Paste those pages into the E:A Tau list, or paraphrase those pages and ask forgiveness after the fact.

- Initiative bonus for Stealth, Moray and/or Manta.  
Stealth teams, yes; Moray, not sure; Manta, yes

- Network Drones; allowing further formations access to the upgrade.  
Yes, Particularly Stingray Contingents.

- Knarloc Riders, and the Kroot
I'll second Honda's idea

- Vespids:  
Should be included, the discussed stats are fine by me.  Include them as a Mission Group-sized formation of 4, or possibly just an upgrade of 4 to a Crisis formation.

- Tau names for the relevant units.  
Nice, but not necessary

- Swordfish: What is the purpose of this unit? Does the upgrade alter the role of the formation? Are these taken in 'all' formations?  
Others have said it better than I can.

- AX-1-0: Formation size and points cost. Increase main armament to 2+?  
Actually, I'd support shortening the range, if that would help balance the unit. Godawful long range guns on an airplane have proven to be very difficult to balance, and actually aren't really realistic in one sense.  You're flying along at 600kph or faster, no matter how long a max range you have, your effective range is less, because you're chasing the shells.  The B25H Mitchell gunships (the closest comparison to an AX10) had a 75mm howitzer in the nose.  They could only get off 4 shots at a target 4000 yards away, and usually only got 3.  I find it reasonable that the AX10 would have a shorter 'effective' range than what the guns are 'actually' capable of.  30cm 3+ rails, 200 points each, or 375 a pair.

- Pathfinders (and, to a lesser extent, Fire Warriors): Disrupt on the Rail Rifle? Are the Fire Warriors worth taking for their own value, do these two infantry units perform as expected? Are Fire Warriors worth taking when compared? Should Pathfinders points value be increased?  
Yes, Railrifles should cause Disruption, they cause Pinning in 40k like almost every other weapon that has Disrupt.  Railrifles should also have an AT6+ attack, they are S6, just like a Plasma Rifle.  
FW seem to be a little underperforming right now.  FWIW, I don't take Pulse Carbines, just rifles in 40k.  None of my friends who play Tau do, either.  Give FW 2x AP5+ shots, and lose the carbines.  Drop FW Cadre to 175, and (if my suggestions for PF changes are accepted) increase PF Mission Group to 225.


- Orca: Can these be exploited? Should they be limited to one per Cadre taken?
The Orca issue is more one with the basic rules themselves than an issue with the Orca in the Tau list.  If there really needs to be a change, restrict the Orcas to 1 per formation that can fit inside them.  That should make a pretty good limit.

- Change the name of the Scorpionfish?
Is this a question of too many 'XYZ' fish, or is it the 'Scorpion'?  That answer changes some of my suggestions.  Change it to Narwhal?  How about Puff, Specter, or Spooky (the converted cargo plane gunships that are it's conceptual predecessors)?  How about a name loaded with history:  Grayback, Albacore, Archer, or Amberjack (WW2 US Navy subs lost in combat)?

- Reduce the number of special rules in the list. (Support Craft rule?)
[i]No opinion. Haven't used them enough to make a decision

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 Post subject: Changes for version 4.4.1
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:33 am 
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On Rail Rifles being AT6+: The comparison with Plasma Guns isn't quite right. Plasma Guns are S7 and fire multiple times. But the Rail Rifles being AT 6+ wouldn't terribly bother me... Except that they're also Sniper weapons, which really really doesn't feel right. Sniping tanks with a weapon which can barely even hurt anything tougher then a Dreadnought. And even then only glances most targets at best. The volume of them might be worth making them AT6+, but if so I HIGHLY urge moving their Sniper onto just the AP part.


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