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SM chapters

netepic

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:43 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
Posts: 7016
Location: Southfields, London, England

Hi,

I am building up a new Ork army from scratch (I fancied painting up a brand new army, my exist Orks are not the best painted miniatures in the world... plus will provide extra articles for the Incoming! EZine which I am sure Douglas would appreciate).

Basically I was just wondering if you guys had any tips on Army composition... at the moment I have painted up 3 Evil Sunz Stompers and undercoated 5 Gun trucks. (Not quite a Waaaargh! but it is a start!) I have 30 Ork EPIC 40k sprues, and 15 Ork SM 2nd Ed sprues, I also have a Great Gargant and can generally obtain anything else I need via eBay or track it down from somewhere in the Miniatures Online vault

.

So do you guys have any recommendations for me? I could do with a hand as I am taking quite a while to paint up these miniatures (and typing up articles and photographing them too) so I don't want to waste time painting units that I won't generally use.

I normally field a Dark Angels marine army, I like a combined arms approach, leaning towards fast units and hand to hand combat, though short ranged skirmishing shooting units are also favoured (Used to love Kislev units in my games of Warhammer, they were a great suppliment to my army before the Empire army list was shredded and all my favourite units became illegal... Halflings, Horse Archers, Winged Lancers, Dwarves... never used Ogres but still liked them for the fluff

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Legion 4

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 5:11 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36984
Location: Ohio - USA

Well I have my Orks (or Orksez as Gollum would say) organized on the original SM1 templates

, since that's when I started. I have 3 Hordes of 10 Warbands each so that's a lot of "GreenSkins" and I may make a number of seperate Warbands based on the E-A releases. ?That being said, it appears to me that you have to decide what level of "Mechanization" you want your Orks, a completely Mech Force or Foot troops supported by armor. ?I have both, and use them accordingly, but based on numerous reasons I try to make all my forces combined arms units. ? We use the Mk.1 plastic Battle Wagons (the ones that came with the SM1 and later SM2 sprues, with the little turret off to the side) as APCs = Rhinos. ?You need APCs to move your troops so they can keep up with your other bigger Battle Wagons/Tanks & bikes, etc. ?Battle Fortresses and some of the new Gun Truks or Gun Wagons can carry troops also, so you should have no trouble designing a "Mech Force". ? We also use the rule that 1 stand can ride on the back of a Tank/ Battle Wagon, I've seen it done in both historical photos and in the real world, so it works... ?After that add bikes, buggies etc., for CAV and Big Gunz and the like as Field Artillery and you have a Combined Arms Force worth fighting with. ? ?Of course with some of the upcoming releases for E-A you may have to modify that, but the basics remain the same.

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Jimbo

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 5:14 pm

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:01 pm
Posts: 3495
Location: Wessex

(quick answer) first and foremost

paint lots and lots of Boyz (not Shooty or Nobz)

then

paint lots and lots of gretchins/grots

I would also get lots of buggies and wartraks

the issue is more do you want a cheesey beardy winning army or do you want an army which matches the fluff and spirit of an Ork army?

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primarch

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:08 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA

Hi!

I agree with Jimbo's assessment, infantry, bikes and buggies are the heart of any ork horde. After this add a sprinkling of vehicles and gargants and your set.

Primarch

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netepic

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 2:13 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
Posts: 7016
Location: Southfields, London, England

I am not after a beardy army, I want an army that suits the fluff mainly, that is why I am working hard to get the paint schemes right

.... but at the same time, I don't want to lose every game.

I would like a large Goff detachment, nothing is more orky than the Goffs.... eventually I would like to have at least one detachment for each Ork Clan, but for the moment, I just want a playable army as soon as possible.

I also want a variety of models so that the articles are interesting for the EZine, I mean, people will get kinda bored with Week 4, painting more Goff boyz

. So it would be useful for the EZine if I could generate some variety.

With Buggies and Bikes, how do you guys base them? On coins or the reverse side of the square bases?

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Legion 4

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 5:19 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
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Location: Ohio - USA

Gee, I thought Jimbo & Primarch were "Old School" like me ? (Guess not !!) ?I didn't intend to offend any one's Orky sensibilities

. However the SM1 templates, which we still use, were designed by Jervis & crew to organize warbands by clan. And giving parameters for how many of each type infantry, battle wagon, odd bitz, etc. goes into a warband based on their clan affiliation. ?For example Evil Sunz can have 1-4 mobs (detachments) of bikes where Snake Bites can only have 0-1, because of their clan "predilections", for want of a better word. ?That's not beardy or cheesy, that's following not only the "fluff" but what G/W wrote in the "roolz" ? :laugh:

, not that it really matters. ?Most clans work out to be at least 50% infantry anyway which is what the Ork forces are. ?Infantry supported by other weapons systems (battle wagons, Dreads, etc.) with a lot of fast attack vehicles ( bikes, buggies etc.). You'll never see Ork Tank companies. ?They don't field them that way. ?You'll never see a lot of Ork artillery either, most Ork field guns are A-T or light support weapons and they don't have a lot of them. ?(I know E-A is going to give them a "Soopa Gun", so there's one Heavy piece, but that's not the norm

) ? I have many Warbands for all 6 major Ork Clans and based on the SM1 charts each one is a little different. ?But here's something that the "fluff" does not tell you. ?The Orks have more AFVs, by type, than even the IG (including F/W models):-o !!! ? I know, my Ork Forces are arrayed next to my IG in display cases in my "War Room" . ?And as I said, I've been collecting Epic since SM1 in '90, and that's a lot of Battle Wagons, buggies, odd bitz, etc., etc. ... ?So you can base your "Orksez" on your interpretation of "fluff" or whatever "roolz" system you want, but if you go toe-to-toe with me, with nothing but dismounted boyz, buggies & bikes ... Well as the Gunny on the History Channel says, "It ain't gonna' be pretty !!!" :unclesam:

? ? That's just my opinion ... I could be wrong ? ? ?

?... thank you ... thank very much ...

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Jimbo

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:14 pm

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Location: Wessex

Quote (Legion 4 @ 02 2003 Mar.,04:19)

Gee, I thought Jimbo & Primarch were "Old School" like me ?

I am somewhat "Old School", did buy Space Marine, but personally I have never liked the Clan structure behind the Orks, it always seemed too well organised for Orks - six (or is it seven) dominant clans across the galaxy didn't click with me.

For me Orks are infantry dominated (and even Speed Freeks seems to be the same (except they're carried by Trukks)).

(Guess not !!) I didn't intend to offend any one's Orky sensibilities

no offence taken

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primarch

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:26 pm

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA

Hi!

I agree, six clans for the whole of rokdom is limiting and very "un-orky"

While an ork force contains many different types of vehicles and other special troops, the infantry is the core of the ork Waargh!

Primarch

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Legion 4

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2003 5:25 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
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Location: Ohio - USA

Well Boyz, thought I'd just get Orky a bit, no malice was intended

?!!! ? And yes, most of my warbands are at least 50% Infantry of all types. ?I liked the SM1 Ork "TO&E" (?) chart, like I said, and we use it. But being "Very Old School", I thought I'd make the point that the Orks have a lot of AFVs, too. ? And believe me, I'm an old infantryman so I'm partial to Grunts. ?And I even remember gaming against my buddie's SMs with an Imperialis and my mostly Ork infantry took him down

!! ?He was surprised I took so many Ork Grunts !!! ?So like I always say, it's a big galaxy, do your own thing. ?But according to the old SM1 charts the Orks get AFV support too... ?As far as only 6 clans, well like with SM & IG (& other) units, you can make up your own, that's only a guide line. ?Max made up a Jabberwoky clan. I remember him telling us about, it was very cool :cool:

. It's always good to get input from some of the other "Old Dogs of War", I guess I'm just a Living Ancestor in Epic terms.

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

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MaksimSmelchak

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:10 pm

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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Ork Clan Name:
Base Colour:
Complementing Colours:
Theme/Specialty:

Bad Moonz
Official
Yellow
Black Squiggly Stripes.
Blue or red trim.
Long Range Firepower

Blood Axes
Official
Green (camouflage)
Multi-coloured patchwork boxes.
Human-style equipment & organization. Ostracized from Ork Kultur. Cheaper.

Death Skulls
Official
None: light brown & dusty. Patched & ragged
Blue skin colouring.
Multi-coloured patchwork boxes.
Scavengers. Looted & scrounged equipment.

Evil Sunz
Official
Red
Yellow squiggly stripes and trim.
Black & white checks.
Speed freaks. Quick flanking units and Mekboy inventions.

Goffs
Official
Black
Red trim. Black & white checks.
Close combat & hard-hitting weapons. Most brutish Orks.

Snakebites
Official
Beige with pale grey or light brown animal skins and furs
Red & blue triangle decoration. Yellow and brown trim.
Traditionalists. Close combat and short range firepower. Psykers.

Jabberwoks
Not official
Orange
Blue and red trim with green highlights.
Red & white checks.
Mechanized clan (highly mobile). Long-range firepower and artillery.

-------------------------

I wrote that above list to catalogue the tribal variations for my Orks some time ago. I also wanted to invent a new tribe that was more mechanized than other ones and actually had some artillary (a Gunz Mob) as well as a significant level of mechanization. Hence, the Jabberwoks were born. I have a small force painted up for them.

My current Epic project is a Bad Moonz-type Ork warband for E-A. The actually composition has changed many times during E-A playtesting to try new things. At one time, they were really Stompa heavy, which I really liked, but the stompas got emasculated in the latest playtest versions.

Jimbo,
I understand what you are saying about the Ork tribes, but the last 40k codex pointed out that the tribal types were more like archetypes or templates of types of Ork warbands that are possible rather than a galaxy wide club. In that light, it really works well for me.

In E-A though, about the only type of feasible tribes that I see are fast moving hordes (Kult of Speed types) and hard hordes (full of tough war machines). The infantry heavy formations don't end up doing too well although if transported by a Battlefortress they can do well. Most other lists or combination types just aren't competitive against SM or IG forces. The IG is particularly hard on Orks.

Has anyone else out there invented their own tribal type?

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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Legion 4

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 6:18 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36984
Location: Ohio - USA

Thanks Max, I appreciate the input. ?I remember your chart on Ork Clans from the Epic40k.com Forum. See guys, I didn't make this up :laugh:

!!!

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

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Jimbo

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:18 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:01 pm
Posts: 3495
Location: Wessex

Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 03 2003 Mar.,21:10)

I understand what you are saying about the Ork tribes, but the last 40k codex pointed out that the tribal types were more like archetypes or templates of types of Ork warbands that are possible rather than a galaxy wide club. In that light, it really works well for me.

that works with me too, it was the galaxy wide club which I didn't like

Has anyone else out there invented their own tribal type?

Though I haven't named my tribal type, what I have is two types, one is feral, therefore lots of Snakebitez stuff and still working on some nice models, a large Squiggoth Titan and a WHFB Terradon Heavy Ork Bomber ~ and lots and lots of infantry

My other tribal type is more of a Blood Axe Speed Freeks army with lots of "copies" of Imperial Guard equipment supported by bundles of buggies and wartraks.

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Legion 4

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:29 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36984
Location: Ohio - USA

We may see different Clans/tribes in the "fluff" of E-A ? ?I'll have to check my old W/Ds ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

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dafrca

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:59 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
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Location: Burbank, CA, USA

When it comes to the Ork Tribes, I think it falls into the same problem as the marine chapters. A lot of people are lazy and just use the Chapter/Tribe that GW uses as the example. Thus we see hundreds of Ultra Marines and Space Wolves but the others get ignored. I believe the tribes are the same. The Fluff supports the idea that the tribes listed are just the archtypes, but the magazine, rulebooks, and most people just use those listed because it is "easy".

dafrca

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nealhunt

Post subject: SM chapters

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:51 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

I rather like the clans. I would like to see them be a little better differentiated via army lists and/or some special characters or units (weirdboyz for the Bad Moonz, Mekboyz for the Evil Sunz, etc.).

I would think that 6 clans is plenty to pick from, with the obvious ability to make up your own.

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