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Aircraft Sniping in E:A
Tactica	Post subject: Aircraft Sniping in E:A Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:47 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	I posed the question of legality of 'aircraft sniping' to a closed group participating in an online campaign where GLane also participates (the E:A experimental rules champ). This was a talking point either NH or TRC brought up in the Tau thread sometime ago and at that time, the consensus was - its a problem in the main rules. However, when I brought up the legality of Aircraft sniping in this closed group,  CodeRonin (also a member here) responded as follows and I thought it was a good response worthy of some consideration if not debate. Rob, I am learning aircraft, so I was wondering how they justify sniping. What I read is: 4.2.2 "Aircraft carrying out a ground attack action may attack an enemy ground formation." The key word is "formation" and not "unit". 4.2.2 "Aircraft are assumed to be flying high enough in the air to ignore terrain that might block the line of sight when they shoot at targets, and the crossfire rule does not apply to aircraft attacks. This aside, resolve the attack using the normal shooting rules." The key is the last sentence. Normal shooting rules do not allow you to snipe units (unless you have Sniper, of course). 4.2.1 "Aircraft are assumed to be travelling high enough above the ground to fly over terrain, zones of control, and other units." I could not find the general rule that a unit may not land on top of a unit, even if it may wove through it, but there is a skimmer rule that says it: 2.1.13 "Skimmers may also move over other friendly units as they move, but may not land on them." So, unless you are leaving sufficient space around the leader, they cannot even fit the stand within your formation. Let's look at hit allocation: 1.9.6 "Hits are allocated 'from the front to the back' of a formation." 1.9.2 "... with the front and back being determined by the location of the target formation." This last part is about suppression, which goes from back to front, but the same rules for determining which is the formation's back and which is its front applies to normal shooting. So, even if you left space and he plopped the aircraft in the middle of your formation, the back of the formation is determined by the unit which is farthest from the shooter. Then hits are allocated from the opposite end, not the closest unit to the firer. Also, if your opponent is doing that, invoke the official hit allocation rules (not the new experimental rules, which waffle and say you can always use the old method anyway) and he only gets one crack at you. [CodeRonin] "The Rules Lawyer" Looking forward to any thoughts... Cheers, Rob _________________ Rob

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code_ronin	Post subject: Aircraft Sniping in E:A Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:01 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm Posts: 127	Again, my comment was centered around what rules I didn't know about, as I am learning aircraft operations and have never played with them (although Shawn the Ork definitely wants to give me a lesson in them ). What I can see of the rules is that: a. You target a formation, just like any other shooting unit. b. Where the firer is in relation to the target determines which part of the target is the "front" and which is the "back". c. Even with the experimental hit allocation rules, casualties are taken from the front to the back. d. Even with the experimental hit allocation rules, you can always specify that hits be allocated one by one. If the one hit allocated to the AA unit is saved, the unit cannot be removed as a casualty, even if they are the frontmost unit, as you are specifying which hits must be saved by which units. (I would recommend this "tactic" against an aircraft sniper abuser.) Does anyone know of a rule that makes an exception to the stated rule that says aircraft use all of the normal shooting rules (save for the exceptions listed)? Not that it matters to this discussion, but does anyone know if an aircraft can end its movement on top of another unit (enemy or friendly)? Thanks, Dale _________________ Have keyboard, will travel.
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jfrazell

Post subject: Aircraft Sniping in E:A Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:23 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm Posts: 144

Does anyone know of a rule that makes an exception to the stated rule that says aircraft use all of the normal shooting rules (save for the exceptions listed)? the flight rules specifically states you use normal rules: 4.2.2 Aircraft Attacks After aircraft have made their approach move they are allowed to attack. Aircraft carrying out a ground attack action may attack an enemy ground formation. Aircraft carrying out an interception mission may attack an enemy aircraft formation. Aircraft are assumed to be flying high enough in the air to ignore any terrain that might block the line of sight when they shoot at any targets, and the crossfire rule does not apply to aircraft attacks. This aside, resolve the attack using the normal shooting rules. _________________ "Advance to the Rear!"

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nealhunt

Post subject: Aircraft Sniping in E:A Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:32 pm

Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA

I think there is confusion caused by calling the tactic "sniping" versus the actual sniper special ability. Aircraft "sniping" is no different than if a ground formation maneuvered so that a specific enemy unit is the closest one and has to be allocated hits first.  Aircraft are just much better at maneuvering into position. a. You target a formation, just like any other shooting unit. Yep. b. Where the firer is in relation to the target determines which part of the target is the "front" and which is the "back".

It's interpretted as closest to farthest and is not necessarily linear.  You don't necessarily start at one edge and allocate as if a plane (geometric, not flying) were passing over the formation.

You could, for example, fire at a formation which was in a rough arc in front of you.  It might be that a unit on the right side was the closest, then a unit over on the other side was next, ending up with a sort of piebald pattern of where the hits were allocated.

Another example would be a company in a trenchline.  The first hit would be at the closest unit, which would be directly in front of the firing formation.  Allocation would essentially radiate outward from that closest unit, blowing a hole in the middle of the line.

c. Even with the experimental hit allocation rules, casualties are taken from the front to the back.

Yep.

d. Even with the experimental hit allocation rules, you can always specify that hits be allocated one by one. If the one hit allocated to the AA unit is saved, the unit cannot be removed as a casualty, even if they are the frontmost unit, as you are specifying which hits must be saved by which units. (I would recommend this "tactic" against an aircraft sniper abuser.)

Yep.  It's still just one allocated hit until you have covered every eligible target and are then allowed to begin doubling up.

In relation to the AX10 that started the discussion in question you are talking about only MW and TK hits, so usually no save for that one hit.

Does anyone know of a rule that makes an exception to the stated rule that says aircraft use all of the normal shooting rules (save for the exceptions listed)?

Nope.  As noted, it uses the exact same mechanic as the normal shooting.  Aircraft are just better at manipulating it.

Not that it matters to this discussion, but does anyone know if an aircraft can end its movement on top of another unit (enemy or friendly)?

Never thought about it.  Never seen it come up in a game.