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Withdrawal from Assault and Pursuit

 Post subject: Withdrawal from Assault and Pursuit
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:05 am 
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The great thing about Epic games with new people is that you get a new perspective on how other interpret the rules.

Scene: The Saim-Hann Jetbikes engage a freakin' 'uge Mob of Ork Boyz (27 stands or something like that?) and just slaughter them. The Boyz run withdraw Broken. The Jetbikes consolidate within 15cm of them. What happens to the Boyz.

I was just thinking about my consolidation move, my Orky opponent was feverishly flipping through the rules. He then declares that if the Jetbikes pursue to within 15cm then the Orks are destroyed, as the Jetbikes pursued them. Hey, cool! I think I'll do that!

After the game, I was trying to find the rule that he seemed to focus on and see what it said. As best as I can guess (Shawn, if you are out there, let me know if this is what you were referring to), it was 1.13.3 Withdrawals: ... but if a unit ends the second withdrawal move within 15cm of the enemy, it is destroyed (it is killed while trying to escape!).

Okay, now here's the rub. After the Ork moved twice, the Jetbikes were not within 15cm; it was after the Jetbikes completed their consolidation that the condition existed.

Now logically(1), the Jetbikes are pursuing, so at the end of that turn (after all movement is complete), the broken formation is withn 15cm. This also fits the fluff description about pursued units being destroyed.(2).

But literally(3), when the withdrawal move end, the only way for the unit to be destroyed would be if they have a horrible move, they are surrounded, or there are other enemy units behind them. And that last one would not make sense regarding pursuers, as those units farther back would not be pursuing.

So, the question is: when do you determine if withdrawing units are destroyed by pursuers:
 A) Immediately after the withdrawing units complete their move.
 B) At the completion of that action, which includes the winner's consolidation move.

I think you should answer this question without[/] regard to the fact that the Eldar consolidation move is so large. Either you believe that the consolidation move counts as pursuit of a withdrawal or you do not.

Also, please answer the question with [i]why
you believe it is A or B (or C - something I have not considered).

Thanks!

Dale

Endnotes
(1) I know that logic usually has nothing to do with GW games, but I see Epic and Warmaster being of a much higher caliber than the other games that people usually make that comment about.

(2) No, I don't consider fluff text to be rules either.

(3) "Literally" is how I take most GW rules (much to the irritation of my opponents, who call it rules-lawyering).

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 Post subject: Withdrawal from Assault and Pursuit
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:50 am 
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It's 'A', the literal interpretation.  Why?  That's what the rules say, as you state.

I think it's a mistake to appeal to "logic" - and I'm not slamming GW.   We're playing a game, not a simulation, and there are so many abstractions that it's easy to find a real-world rationale for pretty much any interpretation.

The 15cm 'kill' distance is one of those abstractions.  It's not like all of the pursuing troops suddenly become highly lethal over short range, it's just a mechanic to force the losers to run away.

There is no "pursuit" mechanic (as there is in, say, Warmaster), that's just fluff text explaining what the 15cm is trying to evoke.

The outcome of rules is often highly dependent to the order in which they're applied.  GW doesn't put much emphasis in the order in which things occur, unfortunately.

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 Post subject: Withdrawal from Assault and Pursuit
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:19 pm 
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After our discussion last night, I have come to the conclusion that A is the correct answer.

Using the text you quoted:


After the game, I was trying to find the rule that he seemed to focus on and see what it said. As best as I can guess (Shawn, if you are out there, let me know if this is what you were referring to), it was 1.13.3 Withdrawals: ... but if a unit ends the second withdrawal move within 15cm of the enemy, it is destroyed (it is killed while trying to escape!).


The rule is clearly stating that the determination is made at the conclusion of the second withdrawal move. The rule could have just as easily made reference to the end of consolidation move, but did not.

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 Post subject: Withdrawal from Assault and Pursuit
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:07 pm 
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Quote (Honda @ 22 Jan. 2006 (17:19))
The rule is clearly stating that the determination is made at the conclusion of the second withdrawal move. The rule could have just as easily made reference to the end of consolidation move, but did not.

The rule quoted would not likely reference a consolidation move, because consolidation moves are discussed in section 1.12. The rule quoted was the general withdrawal rule (1.13.3), which applies to all withdrawals by broken formations, not just those made after an assault.

Hmmm. I can hear the Orks now. "We wuz robbed!".

Well, if this is the way the ruling is going to go, at least he'll demand a re-match and I'll get another game in!  :D

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