What is missing from the E-A rules? |
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netepic
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules?  Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:49 am |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
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Location: Southfields, London, England
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Orks too tough?!? They are on around 46% win ratio on the battlestats, if anything Eldar are too tough, creeping up to just over 58% win ratio...
There isn't enough data yet to comment on Tyranids but there appears to be some issues there.
Orks 46.43 % (wins 117, losses 135)
Eldar 58.02 % (wins 76, losses 55)
Tyranid 36.84 % (wins 7, losses 12)
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Shadow Hunter
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:03 pm |
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I would imagine as people work out how to defeat the Eldar the stats will come down. Once they've played as many as the Orks, if they are still up there, then yes maybe they do need a little attention.
The only thing is, with the lists changing all the time, you can't be guaranteed which rules people are using for the stats.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:23 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Yeah,
That's my problem with those stats. They were reset once, iirc, but there have already been some big changes, so those stats are composites of a bunch of stuff.
I think the recent Ork list changes will help their win percentage. Flakwagons are now interchangeable with Gunwagons - same slots in the army list, same transport ability. The only difference is the gun, which loses 15cm range in return for AA6+.
Personally, I rarely have Wagons sitting back to fire, so I will play almost exclusively Flakwagons. Aircraft should have a much harder time against Orks now, doubly so since they can field gigantic formations of Fighta-bommas.
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Neal
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dafrca
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:58 pm |
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Location: Burbank, CA, USA
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Well,
Jervis is looking into flak for Gargants. Neal and a couple of others with the playtest group brought it up.
Good Job Neal!
Dafrca
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nealhunt
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:12 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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*Tips his hat*
Just doin' my job, folks.
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Neal
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Legion 4
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:19 pm |
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Location: Ohio - USA
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And it appears that Jervis is going to give the Orks another Flakwagon, from what I read. ?
Game designers, even ones supposedly as well read (?), knowledgeable (?) and experienced as Jervis, have to be careful how they introduce certain things into a game system and change and shift the whole paradigm. ?
Too much Air Power or not enough? ?
We are seeing the same discussion about artillery. ?
Because the "artist driven" company is run by "Oh this would look cool!" as opposed to the things the game really needs...
Here's a thought I had, now that Jervis mentioned the Valkyrie & Vulture.
Who is going to make the Epic model? ?
Fanatic? ?
Forge World?
Both?! ?
I'd bet that even Jervis isn't sure... 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:43 pm |
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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
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Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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I would imagine as people work out how to defeat the Eldar the stats will come down. Once they've played as many as the Orks, if they are still up there, then yes maybe they do need a little attention.
The only thing is, with the lists changing all the time, you can't be guaranteed which rules people are using for the stats. |
That is how it goes. Before the playtesting becomes "mature," the Orks continually get downgraded because their statistics and organization, more than anything else, are gathering victories.
Once the tactics have been learned to defeat them, they start losing rather more frequently than could be considered "balanced."
That's what I've been complaining / discussing / analyzing with my Ork army comments.
I hear the next thing is that Flak Wagons are going to "acquire" lesser statistics.
Maybe if I really want to cook the lists, I should start a ton of posts talking about how the SMs and IGs are too powerful! ?
Eventually their stats will be lowered and I'll time it right before the game goes to final draft so my Orks can win! ? 
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:48 pm |
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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
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Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Well,
Jervis is looking into flak for Gargants. Neal and a couple of others with the playtest group brought it up.
Good Job Neal!
Dafrca |
I'm happy for you Neal, but I brought this up months ago on playtest, but was ignored. Funny thing is that I probably won't receive any credit for this idea.
I also proposed that any Ork vehicle with two to three or more Big Gunz gain an AA shot. This would have solved the Gargant AA deficit.
I noticed really early in playtesting that Gargants suffer from a lack of AA. Darn Thunderhawks, Marauders and Thunderbolts!
Oh well... ?
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:57 pm |
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Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Legion-4,
Here's a thought I had, now that Jervis mentioned the Valkyrie & Vulture.
Who is going to make the Epic model?
Fanatic?
Forge World?
Both?! |
I'm not sure that JJ will leave any core units as only manufactured by FW. He has mentioned that he doesn't to pressure players into having to buy the expensive FW models.
FW pieces are supposed to be for collectors and not required to play the game.
I imagine that all of the mainstream core units will be metal ones manufactured by GW.
Who knows what will actually happen though!
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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stormseer
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:37 pm |
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Location: Suffolk, UK.
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I'm not sure that JJ will leave any core units as only manufactured by FW. He has mentioned that he doesn't to pressure players into having to buy the expensive FW models. |
Yeah, I'd think Fanatic will make metal versions of most of FW's stuff, although whether it will be cheaper than the "expensive" FW stuff is debatable, seeing as superheavies are all ?1 cheaper, and the new Night Spinners are cheaper too.... ?
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primarch
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:27 pm |
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
GW has screwy pricing policy. Up to not to long ago the Forgeworld Leman Russ tanks were cheaper than buying them individually from mail order.
Hopefully their prices will be a little more "tolerable" this time.
Primarch
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Legion 4
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Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:57 am |
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Well after it's all said and done, based on past events, I believe we will see many things done by "Both" Fanatic & Forge World...
And I not sure if it's a good thing or not? ?
Too much is better than not enough - I guess? ? 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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