Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas |
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Tiny-Tim
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Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas  Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:21 am |
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Location: North Yorkshire
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On the WPS Epic Rules Committee, yes I know I should go outside once in a while, it has been suggested to bring in a whole command stand.
This would use the techmarine rule above, a similar version for the apothic##$$## Medic and also a Standard Bearer to allow for limited reduction of BM.
The idea is to reduce the Supr Com to +75pts and havethis additional up-grade at + a further 50pts.
I agree that ome of the existing rules could be used further. ie Inv Sv, but is a bit of a throw away save and not a bonus to be used when really needed.
Tim
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The_Ape
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Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:44 pm |
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I quite like the techmarine idea but as an alternative, how about just give Rhino's and razorbacks the chance to re-roll their armour save? (but not anything else based on a rhino chassis) Without the limitation of D3 +1 which the techmarines would give.
Fluff wise it could be justified by the fact that Rhino's are incredibly easy to repair
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Markconz
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Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:15 pm |
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Location: New Zealand
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| Quote (The_Ape @ 02 2005 Aug.,12:44) | I quite like the techmarine idea but as an alternative, how about just give Rhino's and razorbacks the chance to re-roll their armour save? (but not anything else based on a rhino chassis) Without the limitation of D3 +1 which the techmarines would give.
Fluff wise it could be justified by the fact that Rhino's are incredibly easy to repair |
That is basically just giving them the reinforced armour ability... which I don't think they deserve.
An invulnerable save maybe... to represent the ease of repair etc of rhinos (not razorbacks which are already good value in epic, and also don't have the easy repair ability in 40k).
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netepic
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Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:11 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
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Location: Southfields, London, England
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| Quote (Jaldon @ 31 2005 July,20:25) | |
(1) In General Too Weak in Assaults
(Fix) Change outnumber result to the following
(A) If outnumbered by 2 to 1, or more then enemy gets +1
(B) If Even or just outnumbered enemy gets +0
? If Marines outnumber enemy they get +2
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Sounds groovy
(2) Vindicator Not Worth It
(A) Increase it's speed to 25cm
(B) Give it FF+1 attacks
? Give Demolisher Cannon Ignore Cover
OR
(D) Decrease it's Detachment cost to 200pts, and per unit cost to 50pts
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Decrease cost - it has to preserve the link to 40k for the studio to accept it.
(3) Too Weak Against WE(A) Make Hunter MW4+TKD3 AA4+
(B) Live with it every army should have weaknesses
Live with it
Other things to consider:
Armour is too expensive - especially the Land Raiders. I never field them any more :S.
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The_Ape
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Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:30 pm |
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| Quote (Markconz @ 02 2005 Aug.,13:15) | | Quote (The_Ape @ 02 2005 Aug.,12:44) | I quite like the techmarine idea but as an alternative, how about just give Rhino's and razorbacks the chance to re-roll their armour save? (but not anything else based on a rhino chassis) Without the limitation of D3 +1 which the techmarines would give.
Fluff wise it could be justified by the fact that Rhino's are incredibly easy to repair |
That is basically just giving them the reinforced armour ability... which I don't think they deserve.
An invulnerable save maybe... to represent the ease of repair etc of rhinos (not razorbacks which are already good value in epic, and also don't have the easy repair ability in 40k). |
Well, id personally be happy with just a better armour save. You are right, they dont deserve the reinforced armour rule, but on the same note, i feel the invulnerable save is not much better.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:09 pm |
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Well I agree, to upgrade the Vindy and Hunter. And yes, we let Dreads use Drop Pods, the new big ones vs. the small old versions which, carry SMs (Assault Pods), Deathwind Rockets and a Heavy Support Weapon. We may even give the Assault Pod a weapon as in SM1. We also still use M/Mortars and T/Guns, as well as Tarantulas and Rapiers with our SMs, as in SM1. And all our Epic Forces still use the SM1 Off Board Support system. So there is no such thing as too much firepower ! 
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Breotan
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Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:31 pm |
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| Quote (Jaldon @ 31 2005 July,20:25) | (2) Vindicator Not Worth It
(A) Increase it's speed to 25cm
(B) Give it FF+1 attacks
? Give Demolisher Cannon Ignore Cover
OR
(D) Decrease it's Detachment cost to 200pts, and per unit cost to 50pts |
Regarding the proposed solution to weak assaults, I generally agree with the proposed changes to "outnumber results".
As far as Titans, Space Marines have access to their own Titans so I really don't see any reason to develope new units or dramatically alter existing ones to fill a TK role. Space Marines are not designed to fight Titans. They are powered infantry with support vehicles.
As for the Vindicator... let's just say I seem to love beating dead horses.
I have posted my opinion on the Vindicator before and I will continue to stick to my guns until they are pried from my cold dead hands. The Demolisher Cannon should be identical to the Imperial Guard gun of the same name. It is the same gun, after all, so no need for it to perform differently because it's mounted on a Rhino instead of a Chimera, Russ, or Baneblade chassis. No justification exists for increased FF, Extra Attacks, or other options that do not exist in the Guard's version.
Also, the Vindicator should move at 30cm as do all other Rhino variants. There is nothing in the Demolisher's description that justifies a speed difference. It moves the same speed as all other Marine vehicles in 40k and has the same fire rate as the Whirlwind which currently moves at 30cm in Epic. The big dozer blade that we always see on the Demolisher is optional equipment available to all Rhino variants and the Demolisher Cannon cannot posssibly weigh more than the Whirlwind/Hunter turrets + ammo. Even the Predators have to be pretty weighty to support all those sponsons and huge turreted weapons plus ammo/batteries.
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Jow
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Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:02 pm |
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| Quote (nealhunt @ 04 2005 Aug.,22:37) | | Librarians don't need TK. ?They are incredibly flexible compared to Chaplains. ?I typically include as many or more Librarians as Chaplains in my armies now. ?If they were improved I would only take Chaplains in a few circumstances. |
Sorry it took me so long to reply, I was stuck in Springfield, Misery
Librarians don't need TK. ?They are incredibly flexible compared to Chaplains. ?I typically include as many or more Librarians as Chaplains in my armies now. ?If they were improved I would only take Chaplains in a few circumstances. |
I don't see how you all think Librarians are better. ?
In combat, a chaplain always gives you +1 to the result because of the inspiring rule, not to mention the macro attack you get in CC. So a chaplain has a guaranteed +1 in combat, and can give you up to +2, for just 50 points.
A librarian on the other hand, will only give you +1 if you hit something and kill it. So a Librarian has ~50% chance of giving you just +1, and thats only if your fighting something that won't get a save against your macro attack.
From this, I believe its fairly obvious that the chaplain is even better in a FF because you still get the +1 for inspiring, where a Librarian only has a ~50% chance of that same +1.
I don't think a TK attack for a librarian makes them a must have, it just puts the output more inline with what the chaplain can give you.
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Why does ATSKNF have a negative attached to it? Rallying with twice as many BMs as a regular formation while being half as big is crippling in many cases.