Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas |
|
Tas
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas  Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:28 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
 |
 |
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am
Posts: 7823
Location: Sydney, NSW
|
|
I like the Tech-Marine: After all, it worked well in SM2!
Would that also herald the return of the Medic with personnel saves?
When I pushed this in the initial EA playest forum (lets see, thats 3 offiial forums ago now..) I was told it was too complex? has this officla attitud echanged to allow more character diversity?
_________________
Tas
My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/
My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/
My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Dwarf Supreme
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:48 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11147
Location: Canton, CT, USA
|
|
I, too, like the ideas of Tech-Marines and Medics.
As for the Vindy, it should have the Ignore Cover ability.
Dreads- let them be able to be deployed by drop pod. Also, am I the only one that would like to see them as seperate formations, instead of just upgrades?
_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
nealhunt
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:02 pm |
|
| Purestrain |
 |
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
|
|
I think the marines are pretty close to being okay and only need some minor tweaks. Here are the items I have advocated to the Rules Committee:
Vindicator - up the speed to 25cm
All armor formations (except Whirlwinds) - drop 25 points to 275 points/375 for LRs
TSKNF changes:
Leaders remove 2 BMs
Drop the outnumber mod by 1, i.e. outnumbered is +0, outnumbered more than double is -1.
_________________
Neal
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
gary_clark1946
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:53 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:40 am
Posts: 280
Location: Dominican Republic
|
It has been a while since I jumped in on this but...
I am still of the mind that Tech-marines and medics don't need to be complicated to be in the game. The "Leadership" ability alone works well. ... sorry but I don't want to hear the "They aren't leaders!" argument. It is the effect not what you call it. The point is that you get a reasonable solution with out adding any new rules (except maybe expanding their Invulnerable Save to include some number of units in the detachment.)
In any fluff I can remember SM's could care less about beinging outnumbered, period.
end of rant 
_________________
Wolf1
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
-AL
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:28 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:02 am
Posts: 109
|
|
Good point. Fluss-wise, if Marines aren't outnumbered, then the Emperors resources are being waisted.
_________________
Note to self: add clever signature
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Jaldon
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:26 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.
|
Quote Warmaster Nice
Dreadnoughts.
There's been some suggestions about letting them use Drop Pods for increased mobility.
End Quote
*Jaldon looks left then right* pssssst Dreadnoughts can use drop pods, and Thunderhawks, and Landing Craft already.
Jaldon 
_________________
Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Tiny-Tim
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:21 am |
|
| Hybrid |
 |
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4893
Location: North Yorkshire
|
|
On the WPS Epic Rules Committee, yes I know I should go outside once in a while, it has been suggested to bring in a whole command stand.
This would use the techmarine rule above, a similar version for the apothic##$$## Medic and also a Standard Bearer to allow for limited reduction of BM.
The idea is to reduce the Supr Com to +75pts and havethis additional up-grade at + a further 50pts.
I agree that ome of the existing rules could be used further. ie Inv Sv, but is a bit of a throw away save and not a bonus to be used when really needed.
Tim
_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
The_Ape
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:44 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:30 pm
Posts: 20
|
|
I quite like the techmarine idea but as an alternative, how about just give Rhino's and razorbacks the chance to re-roll their armour save? (but not anything else based on a rhino chassis) Without the limitation of D3 +1 which the techmarines would give.
Fluff wise it could be justified by the fact that Rhino's are incredibly easy to repair
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Markconz
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:15 pm |
|
| Purestrain |
|
 |
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
|
| Quote (The_Ape @ 02 2005 Aug.,12:44) | I quite like the techmarine idea but as an alternative, how about just give Rhino's and razorbacks the chance to re-roll their armour save? (but not anything else based on a rhino chassis) Without the limitation of D3 +1 which the techmarines would give.
Fluff wise it could be justified by the fact that Rhino's are incredibly easy to repair |
That is basically just giving them the reinforced armour ability... which I don't think they deserve.
An invulnerable save maybe... to represent the ease of repair etc of rhinos (not razorbacks which are already good value in epic, and also don't have the easy repair ability in 40k).
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
netepic
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:11 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
Posts: 7016
Location: Southfields, London, England
|
| Quote (Jaldon @ 31 2005 July,20:25) | |
(1) In General Too Weak in Assaults
(Fix) Change outnumber result to the following
(A) If outnumbered by 2 to 1, or more then enemy gets +1
(B) If Even or just outnumbered enemy gets +0
? If Marines outnumber enemy they get +2
|
Sounds groovy
(2) Vindicator Not Worth It
(A) Increase it's speed to 25cm
(B) Give it FF+1 attacks
? Give Demolisher Cannon Ignore Cover
OR
(D) Decrease it's Detachment cost to 200pts, and per unit cost to 50pts
|
Decrease cost - it has to preserve the link to 40k for the studio to accept it.
(3) Too Weak Against WE(A) Make Hunter MW4+TKD3 AA4+
(B) Live with it every army should have weaknesses
Live with it
Other things to consider:
Armour is too expensive - especially the Land Raiders. I never field them any more :S.
|
The_Ape
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:30 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:30 pm
Posts: 20
|
| Quote (Markconz @ 02 2005 Aug.,13:15) | | Quote (The_Ape @ 02 2005 Aug.,12:44) | I quite like the techmarine idea but as an alternative, how about just give Rhino's and razorbacks the chance to re-roll their armour save? (but not anything else based on a rhino chassis) Without the limitation of D3 +1 which the techmarines would give.
Fluff wise it could be justified by the fact that Rhino's are incredibly easy to repair |
That is basically just giving them the reinforced armour ability... which I don't think they deserve.
An invulnerable save maybe... to represent the ease of repair etc of rhinos (not razorbacks which are already good value in epic, and also don't have the easy repair ability in 40k). |
Well, id personally be happy with just a better armour save. You are right, they dont deserve the reinforced armour rule, but on the same note, i feel the invulnerable save is not much better.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:09 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36984
Location: Ohio - USA
|
Well I agree, to upgrade the Vindy and Hunter. And yes, we let Dreads use Drop Pods, the new big ones vs. the small old versions which, carry SMs (Assault Pods), Deathwind Rockets and a Heavy Support Weapon. We may even give the Assault Pod a weapon as in SM1. We also still use M/Mortars and T/Guns, as well as Tarantulas and Rapiers with our SMs, as in SM1. And all our Epic Forces still use the SM1 Off Board Support system. So there is no such thing as too much firepower ! 
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Breotan
|
Post subject: Space Marine Fixes Thoughts/Ideas Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:31 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:49 pm
Posts: 34
|
| Quote (Jaldon @ 31 2005 July,20:25) | (2) Vindicator Not Worth It
(A) Increase it's speed to 25cm
(B) Give it FF+1 attacks
? Give Demolisher Cannon Ignore Cover
OR
(D) Decrease it's Detachment cost to 200pts, and per unit cost to 50pts |
Regarding the proposed solution to weak assaults, I generally agree with the proposed changes to "outnumber results".
As far as Titans, Space Marines have access to their own Titans so I really don't see any reason to develope new units or dramatically alter existing ones to fill a TK role. Space Marines are not designed to fight Titans. They are powered infantry with support vehicles.
As for the Vindicator... let's just say I seem to love beating dead horses.
I have posted my opinion on the Vindicator before and I will continue to stick to my guns until they are pried from my cold dead hands. The Demolisher Cannon should be identical to the Imperial Guard gun of the same name. It is the same gun, after all, so no need for it to perform differently because it's mounted on a Rhino instead of a Chimera, Russ, or Baneblade chassis. No justification exists for increased FF, Extra Attacks, or other options that do not exist in the Guard's version.
Also, the Vindicator should move at 30cm as do all other Rhino variants. There is nothing in the Demolisher's description that justifies a speed difference. It moves the same speed as all other Marine vehicles in 40k and has the same fire rate as the Whirlwind which currently moves at 30cm in Epic. The big dozer blade that we always see on the Demolisher is optional equipment available to all Rhino variants and the Demolisher Cannon cannot posssibly weigh more than the Whirlwind/Hunter turrets + ammo. Even the Predators have to be pretty weighty to support all those sponsons and huge turreted weapons plus ammo/batteries.
_________________
You people are crazy! Crazy fruit-loops from the leftward land of silliness. Even I couldn't make this stuff up.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
