Army Champions coming over? |
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dafrca
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over?  Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:09 pm |
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Oh and Welcome to the Forum Chroma. 
dafrca
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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59
Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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dafrca
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:21 pm |
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| Quote (ChrisHayes @ 04 2005 July,09:10) | | Yahoo suck for thread based discussion, okay as email but to follow a thread is very hard sometimes. |
I agree. I love my Yahoo group for a few things. Picture and file storage and distribution. I also like it for info notices. I have one for our local game group so we can post what is being played etc. I also like them for quick questions.
But for the kinds of discussions playtesting needs, I do not think Yahoo is the answer. But keep in mind, he went there so he could control the members. And Yahoo does that.
dafrca
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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59
Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:31 pm |
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Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Hi Guys,
Dafrca: Sad to say this, but that Champion has elected to make it an invite only group. He must invite you to join. |
*** Is that PG? ***
Yahoo groups are easily controllable by just having new members have their posts moderated. That way, you can see if they're OK and make a decision. Open membership is really the way to go if you want to build up any numbers for membership.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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primarch
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:12 pm |
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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| Quote (dafrca @ 04 2005 July,12:21) | | Quote (ChrisHayes @ 04 2005 July,09:10) | | Yahoo suck for thread based discussion, okay as email but to follow a thread is very hard sometimes. |
I agree. I love my Yahoo group for a few things. Picture and file storage and distribution. I also like it for info notices. I have one for our local game group so we can post what is being played etc. I also like them for quick questions.
But for the kinds of discussions playtesting needs, I do not think Yahoo is the answer. But keep in mind, he went there so he could control the members. And Yahoo does that.
dafrca |
Hi!
We had this discussion on the netepi list some time ago and while people still wanted to keep the mailing list, I believe forums are better for rules design.
Primarch
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primarch
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:16 pm |
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| Quote (dafrca @ 04 2005 July,12:08) | | Quote (Chroma @ 04 2005 July,08:46) | | Quote (Markconz @ 04 2005 July,06:46) | | At least one has already yahoo'd themselves (CSM). I imagine others are waiting to see just what the new forum has to offer. |
Do you have a link/group name for the CSM Yahoo group? ?Doing a search for "Chaos" gets some interesting results... but no EPIC. |
Sad to say this, but that Champion has elected to make it an invite only group. He must invite you to join.
dafrca |
Hi!
I did this for the original "chain e-mail" version of the netepic discussion group. While it gets a "tight" committed group. IT gets a small and perhaps narrow focused group as well.
Open membership has its disadvantages, but the sheer input and broad views from many people is indispensible for good design.
Primarch
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:34 pm |
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| Quote (ChrisHayes @ 04 2005 July,09:10) | | Yahoo suck for thread based discussion, okay as email but to follow a thread is very hard sometimes. |
Yahoo has an option to view messages in a Threaded view as well.
I like Yahoo because I can get all my messages as email and my email client has great filtering and threaded view options. So it gives me file and photo space and email access which I find much easier to use than messageboards.
Messageboards also typically have very bad search functions and I typically need to search for some particular threads and even phrases in threads so search is very critical
Regarding the private nature of the group it is intended to be a small focused group that will do an intial testing pass over new rules before they are released into the public.
Once the current 3.5 version of the list has been vetted by the private group it will be sent to the Vault and discussed in the Epic experimental rules section.
I agree that any rule set needs as wide a range of testing as possible but I think one of the lessons we learned from doing Epic:A is that there also needs to be a way to limit the amount of data coming at people. There are only so many hours in the day and its quite difficult to do corse testing of a list with a large group of people.
This model (small private group and then large public group) gets used in software testing all the time quite positively.
A smalll group also allows you to be more aware of the input you are getting. One of the things that quite often distressed me about the Epic Forums was the anoumt of inout we received from people that hadn't played an army list (either with it or against it) and in some cases hadn't even played a game of Epic.
While this isn't to say that these people don't or can't have valid input its, IMO, necessary to know of the experience level of players when gauging their input. And that works both ways. You also need to know who the experienced players are as well since you don't want to skew a list so that it only reflects the input of those gamers.
That isn't possible in a context where you have an open-ended playtest group.
I'm planning on expanding the private group with new people from the Forum after we release the next version of the list.
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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:43 pm |
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Hi Zac AKA PG,
Thanks for dropping us a line. It's nice to hear what you think.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:45 pm |
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Hi Zac,
Zac: Messageboards also typically have very bad search functions and I typically need to search for some particular threads and even phrases in threads so search is very critical. |
I solved that problem by organizing the threads at the last forum. I can find anything I need very quickly.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:57 pm |
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| Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 04 2005 July,10:45) | | I solved that problem by organizing the threads at the last forum. I can find anything I need very quickly. |
That does work for material that is fairly fresh but on my machine I can search across a lot of material very quickly, view the results and then do further searching on those results to narrow the search to a very small number of possible messages.
I can also flag material to read later which is next to impossible in a messageboard. This is very handy for large battle reports that need to be read and re-read to see what facotrs are at play in a battle.
The ultimate issue, IMO, for a messaageboard is topic creep and topic hijacking. There isn't any way to stop that sort of thing and so even with well organised topics you still need a good search tool.
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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:30 pm |
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| Quote (Charax @ 04 2005 July,11:05) | | Well, regardless of if it's developed on an official or unofficial messageboard, or a mailing list, I'll never use the CSM list to represent my Death Guard force |
I'd certainly not recommend it. Faction specific forces such as that relly need their own list and need to be tested as a distinct list.
Neal's TSons list is a good example. It has a number of issues quite speciic to it and I'd assume that a Death Guard list would have similar issues specific to it as well.
The CSM list is meant to be a fairly generic multi-faction list so it will probably not work very well if you try to model something like teh Death Guard using it.
There is no specific time-table for any other Chaos lists
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:42 pm |
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| Quote (pixelgeek @ 04 2005 July,18:57) | | The ultimate issue, IMO, for a messaageboard is topic creep and topic hijacking. ?There isn't any way to stop that sort of thing and so even with well organised topics you still need a good search tool. |
Well, thank goodness something like that never happens here! ? ?
Anyway, thanks for dropping by PG, and please do keep us updated as to the progress of the development of the list, as I am sure that there are many people who would like a heads-up on the latest version.
I agree that it does seem a little unfair to take a list designed for one purpose and try to use it for a different force. That said, I frequently use similar lists as a basis for others, but only as a 'dropping off point' to give a guide for a totally new list to keep balance across forces. Anyway, if you do come up with a Death Guard list, I would like to see it.
Thanks._________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:53 pm |
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 04 2005 July,11:42) | | Anyway, if you do come up with a Death Guard list, I would like to see it. |
Once the CSM list is done and the OGBM list is finalised then we can have a look at producing official Chaos variant lists.
I guess it depends on what people want to see
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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:09 am |
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Well... if we are taking requests... Emperors Children! Emperors Children! Emperors Children! 
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:34 am |
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 04 2005 July,16:09) | | Well... if we are taking requests... Emperors Children! Emperors Children! Emperors Children! ? |
... or maybe Emperors Children. 
dafrca
_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59
Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Army Champions coming over? Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:57 am |
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| Quote (dafrca @ 04 2005 July,22:32) | | Believe me, I was the AMTL Champion at the start, remember? |
How did you manage to wade through the volumes of material that list generated?
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