If he entirely lacks arty, your own BP units should be able to nuke his huge infantry formations without fear of counter-battery fire.

Not a fan of the Deceiver C'tan, or the Aeonic Orb?


Looks like very bad luck to me.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I'm a big fan of the Orb but Matt isn't silly enough to leave the guardsmen out of the Gorgons when those kind of Barrage attacks are around.
Hitting Gorgons with a max of 2 dice (placing the template over the centre of the Gorgon) on one of them isn't going to nuke those huge formations sadly...
I have tried this.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

If your playing with rules that allow the gorgons to barge their own troops out of the way then attacking players have to try to angle their attackers so there are 7 troops between them and the gorgons.
WE's are only allowed to barge 2 x DC out of the way so a 7th krieg unit in the way would stop them (hard to do though).

When going after the smaller formation you have to try to use formations which will wipe them out before the supporting fire attacks come in (easy to say but harder to do) .

If you're unable to avoid the supporting fire then you have to try to minimize the losses from it.
An example of what I try to do is,
Terminators would Air assault a Warhound, usually the Warhound would be wiped out before the support fire was rolled.
Just in case the Warhound was to survive, I usually put the T/hawk in BtoB (why waste 4+ on shields ) along with the Terminators. The T/hawk is usually positioned to take all the support attacks (WE's block LOS so usually the T/hawk and Warhound can be used to block any attacks going onto the terminators) and the maximum casualties I can take from support is 2 no matter how many attacks hit.

With his Guardsmen in the Gorgons, I have tried getting into base contact and keeping them inside their transports.
I've been using Necrons recently and to trap them like this, the upgraded Necron infantry phalanx will almost certainly have to stay on the board if they win the engagement. This then means they get utterly destroyed by one of the 2 other huge Krieg infantry formations waiting close by.

Thanks for the post dptdexys.
If the Krieg player is having to move his own troops as part of a barge counter-charge, would the attcking units (the Terminators in the above example for instance) count as some of the barged units as they would have to be moved aswell to stay in base contact with the Guardsmen they have already charged?

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

I'm not convinced that you can barge your own troops?
The rule talks about barging the enemy's units.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

This is a key point and would make a huge difference to the strength of the Krieg formation.
Is there an official FAQ on this anywhere? I haven't been able to find one.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

Well, TBH I still wouldn't tend to engage a Krieg formation until I've stripped off the Gorgons, even if they aren't allowed to barge their own units when a Gorgon is counter charging.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Personally I do not think you're allowed to barge you're own units but if it is played that way then all should count towards the 2xDC limit.
Though if the WE makes BtoB with the Terminators it is almost irrelevant as their attacks would still be put on the Gorgon first even with other guardsmen in BtoB (only the attacks back from the guardsman would be affected)

I suppose a clever Marine player would try to position his Terminators so they have 2 guardsmen to each base (would only need 5 guardsmen stands to do that looking at the picture).
Thus claiming that according to the charge rules no other units may make it in to BtoB as they already have their maximum number allowed and negating the gorgons attempts to take the first 3 saves.

I think we've established that you can move over infantry units without penalty, making the charge/counter-charge discussion moot. See 1.7.2.

Three things spring to mind:

1. These are DC3 4+ reinforced armour capable of transporting 10 units, with fair weapons. And they cost... between 50 and 75 points each (most commonly 62.5 for infantry companies)?? I know very little about Krieg, but my gut reaction is that 125 points to transport 20 units in 4+ RA seems cheap to me compared to other races' options. How much would you have to spend on land raiders to transport 10 units? 500 points?

2. There aren't any restrictions to purchasing them, in fact they come with core company slots. This isn't a problem per se, but but most armies must pay for counters (their own war engines and TK weaponry) out of support allocations (either 1/3, or support/troupe formations). I particularly like the "use a CCW titan" counter. What, 3 of them, at 3000 points, to counter 3 formations of 425 point mech. inf.?

3. The critical effect is maybe a bit miserly, merely immobilising the gorgon. Other DC3 WEs get an automatic destroy, including the other IG ones. This could be the difference between all the transported units dying or not.

All this being said, I think this is just an example of good use of an army's best asset, combined with good luck. Probably other armies have equivalents if you look for them. I rather suspect using gorgons on the battlefield takes a lot of skill. I always have trouble with deciding when to have infantry inside transports, and can easily imagine that an army with both barrage and TK weapons on the table would present a big problem for this, in a formation that wants to engage. 20 units is a lot of space to take up if spreading out to avoid barrage, making the formation vulnerable to clipping, and doing this would make it easy to pick a spot where the gorgons can't get to the front anyway. Likewise, 10 units in 1 transport is a big risk when facing TK/MW weapons.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

Looking at the 'modified' picture, IMHO this raises several points:-

1. While the 1st Gorgon may 'move over' friendly infantry, it may not stop on top of them - raising the question of barging friends, which I do not think is allowed (it certainly raises a number of technical issues).
2. The 2nd Gorgon may not contact anyone - it may not pass over the other WE, and is probably out of range anyway.
   

Moral - 'clip' the Gorgon transports!


Good thoughts,
As a comparison, LRs are deemed to be ~75 points for a 1DC, 2-3 person transport. So I would suggest 3x value (~200pts-250pts) would be a more reasonable cost. Certainly they should not be the same cost as individual LRs!

I would also agree that the Critical effect should be destruction of some kind. If there are concerns abouot wiping out everyone onboard, perhaps the transported units save could be automatically 4+ to reflect the strength of the Gorgon armour (which would also go some way to balancing them against the W40K stats.

I would also echo your views on their being used well.

Could also have the critical effect have the Gorgon destroyed without harming the troops at all. They'd still be destroyed if reduced to 0 DC.

I think LR to Gorgons is not an accurate comparison. 5 LR's equate to 10 more AT4+ shots, 2 more FF attacks (at a better FF value), are slightly faster (5 cm), and have thick rear armor. They also transport troops with better AP/ AT shots, better FF, armor, and CC values (Terminators or Marines).

Even if you were to compare DC to DC, Land Raiders still result in faster, better firepower with superior units being transported within.

Let alone ATSKNF, better initiative, better strategy rating, better complementary formations like teleporting termies and air assaulting w/ Thunderhawks, etc.

_________________

I've only faced Gorgons once (Ad-mech, so probably just one Gorgon, I think with Praetorians), but my only tactic was to shoot the monkeys out of it and stay out of engage range. I think I took it out on Turn2 after 2 turns of shooting with a falcon fm on a double. The Praetorians were then lame ducks and got shot to pieces.

If I was facing that list I would focus on the warhounds and deathriders, while laying BMs and scout ZoC/ speedbumping the Gorgon mech fms. Once the titans and deathriders are nullified, which most armies should be able to do (more or less), focus on denying objectives to the mech fms. The shadowswords I wouldn't worry about too much and a stern look is usually enough to break 3 strong Hydra fms.

I think the entire lists is slightly above par (a good two or three under) and some units could do with a 25 or so point increase, gorgons and the base infantry platoons and AA being some of them. But thats just a quick skim over the list. and that might just be me.....?

edit- or maybe a - must take 1 walking platoon to take 1 gorgon platoon?