Quote: (Dobbsy @ Oct. 13 2009, 13:09 )
Well to be fair Frogbear, when you play blind (a tournament or the first time you play someone etc) you don't expect to face 600-800 points of aircraft. It's not something you can dealwith when playing a balanced tourney force. In all the games I've played no one has yet used the amount of aircraft you have. No one.
Balanced force or just something that does not play to your established group? TRC handled them fine from scratch with a well thought out and balanced list. I question whether it is a balance issue or an issue from lack of playing..
Does one prepare for a Warlord or Banelord titan? How is this any different? You either do or you don't.
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I don't think it has been forgotten it's just most people have to find a balance of ground forces and air, and coming up against 3-4 air activations in an army is unusual.
Once again, I believe this is due to a lack of opponents - maybe it's just me, however a balanced force is protecting yourself as well as striving for an objective. One will fall apart without the other. Are you stating that aircraft are too powerful? The pricing is in line with all other lists.
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Truthfully, from an objective point of view, if it were a weakness in the WE list, you shouldn't be able to take 3-5 air activations (3k game) and still have ground forces able to win as often as your WEs do. I think with the amount of air cover you take that it's not an exploitable situation.
We are still in playtests and trying to balance the list, however it is not a force that Marines, Chaos, Orks or Imp Guard could not emulate to a certain extent. I took cheaper units to 'break' the list. Much like a popcorn force, they are small units and certain things in that army could've really hurt the plans of those bikes. As it was, the berzerkers were almost at a point of being useless. The Imp Guard were out of position, that's all. It is easy to state 'blah' however it may have been alot different if the Imp Guard were not so spread out and defending one objective with over 1000 points when their Blitz, BTS and T&H were being threatened on the other side of the table. Sometimes you just have to give up a turn and March in order to give yourself a 2nd and/or 3rd turn punch. ÂÂ
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I think this is a bit of a red herring mate. You outnumbered the guard in activations so I wouldn't say 14 activations in a 4k list is terribly low (going by this batrep). Plus going back to my point about air, you have 4 activations in air assets. If you converted just a couple of air formations to ground formations you are seriously not outnumbered so I don't think you can argue this point in that respect.
I outnumbered with very light units which could have easily been broken or destroyed;  refer to the above. Remember, the Vultures kept all their rockets as just one example...
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To be honest though sustained actions against any formation starts to hurt LOL. World Eaters have the benefit of 4+ armour which most opposition infantry (except e.g SMs and other chaos) don't.
Even yourself found out how valuable shooting was. Likewise you also made the mistake of removing overwatch. With a BTS on the Blitz, what else could one expect of Terminators and teleporting? It is 2 points towards a quick win. I really cannot defend a list over mistakes made by an opponent.
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Anyway this is just some perspective from reading your batreps. It's not an attack on you or the list, simply an objective view. ÂÂ
That's fine. Not too far different I guess for me placing up my observations of what would have beaten the list. All good in hindsight I guess ÂÂ
