Grey Knights are here... |
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here...  Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:25 pm |
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It looks good overall. I just have a few things to suggest.
I would stick to buying things in "even lots" as far as formation size. The price of units as extras is pretty high in comparison. For example, instead of taking 2 KoS of 10 units, for the same price, you could almost field one KoS of 8 and one of 16.
Personally, I think stompas are overpriced (there's a guns v stompas thread somewhere). I would drop the 2 extra stompas and pick up 4 dreads instead (which are also cool models).
I would also fill in the Gunzmob to Big or Uge size and add all the nobz allowable. They're kind of fragile and they really need large numbers and nobz to shake off BMs.
But really, I would have no problem with it as-is.
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Neal
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Shagrat Nutbraker
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:18 pm |
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Thanks for the pointers, as I posted this draft I realised it was a bit short on the ground with boyz so Ill review some of those formations to get another warband in there so Ive numbers ...
Cheers Again
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Shagrat Nutbraker
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:18 pm |
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Hello,
Whilst reviewing numerous on line army lists and complining thousands of varients for Imperial, Orc and Marine armys ...
What do people think about combining both infantry and armour ?
IE Infantry formation ( I.G. ) with 2 supporting tank formations.
Just thought Id ask.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:34 pm |
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Dooglebug
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:03 pm |
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fair enough to say that combined arms is the way forward, it undoubtably is, but in a game system like this the exact way of utilising combined arms within the framework of the rules is what should be questioned. I would personaly tend to keep to more or less vehicle only and more or less infantry only formations for the reason that formations can't split fire so will be either wasting at or ap fire. On the otherhand i think the skill comes in using formations of infantry and vehicles together in support of each other to cover each others weaknesses.
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iblisdrax
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:52 pm |
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It is harder to do under this system, Epic A, but I still like to have at least one tank co. with supporting infantry attached to help ward off assaults and BM.
my 2cents,
iblisdrax
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CrimsonFury
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:59 pm |
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| Quote (Dooglebug @ 21 2004 Feb.,19:03) | | fair enough to say that combined arms is the way forward, it undoubtably is, but in a game system like this the exact way of utilising combined arms within the framework of the rules is what should be questioned. I would personaly tend to keep to more or less vehicle only and more or less infantry only formations for the reason that formations |
I agree. In E:A I tend to keep my infantry and vehicles in seperate formations, but supporting each other. Not due to the lack of split fire, but becuase I find it more useful to be able to split the formations moveent when needed. eg infantry move onto one objective and tanks on the other.
Or if my russ tank comapny get assaulted by the enemy in close combat, next activiation I charge into a firefight with the infantry company sitting behind them  . That kind of thing is harder to if they are part of the same formation. If they were in the same formation i'd only get 6 infantry stands with a 5cm counter charge instead of a 13 infantry (more with upgrades) with a 15cm enage move.
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Shagrat Nutbraker
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:23 pm |
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Fair points one and all .. suppose its just applying real life tactics to the GW rules.
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Dooglebug
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:05 am |
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The point about the movement is also a good one. I hate having very slow units in a formation holding up faster ones. I like to get my moneys worth out a unit.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:24 am |
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Well I think you all get the basic concept of combined arms in the real world and E:A. Infantry was given APCs/IFVs to keep up with AFVs. Dismounted infantry can't walk as fast as tanks can move. I know as I lead an Air Assault Plt. in the 101 and commanded a Mech Co. in the 197th Mech Bde. That being said, we used activation since SM1 in '90. Infantry with or without transport should not be in mixed dets with tanks. Example of using combined arms in Epic : You activate an artillery unit and shoot at an enemy formation and do some damage. He activates a unit and does an action. You move and shoot a unit of your tanks and do more damage to the same Enemy unit. He activates ... maybe shoots at your tanks ! You then activate an Infantry unit and shoot/firefight/Close Combat the attrited enemy unit and wipe it out. Now I know this is a simplistic and contrived example, but I think you get the point. Tanks and Infantry don't have to be in the same det. to do combined arms. Combined Arms means in Epic using different units together to accomplish whatever your mission is. Now Infantry transported in APCs/IFVs will obviously activate together in some cases.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:29 pm |
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Opsmed on the playtest board seems to be a very good tactician and he uses mixed formations extensively. ?Primarily, he uses Russ companies with mechanized infantry platoons.
The loaded chimeras stay near the back of the formation. ?Since they have good distance weapons, any suppression will probably be applied to them before the heavier Russ in front. ?It gives a tremendous boost in numbers for assaults, almost doubling from 10 to 19 units. ?It also gives a huge boost in FF for the same reasons.
But the thing that really surprised me when he pointed it out is that it gives a huge boost if the company is assaulted in hth. ?The chances of getting into base contact with the Chimeras in the back is slim, so the usually the troopers can pile out during countercharge and use their FF. ?Also, while your more valuable units (the Russ) are in base contact meaning they get hit first, they also have reinforced 4+ armor. ?You actually want them to take the hits first (from CC), even before the cheap infantry. ?That way, you shrug off more casualties, resulting in a much higher bonus on your assault resolution. ? Winning is the most important thing because it will actually result in a better preservation of your forces than "preserving" the expensive units during the assault only to lose them without a save if you lose the assault resolution.
Yes, you take a bit of additional risk if the chimeras are hit but they are in the back and only vulnerable to teleporters and air attacks and such. ?And since no infantry are exposed AP is still useless against the formation.
Darn slick if you ask me. 
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Almost forgot...
A similar thing works with Russ and mounted infantry companies - keep the Russ in front to protect the transports until you unload. Their firepower is varied enough that not much will be "wasted" by not splitting up fire. Don't forget that any unit in an assault fires the same, regardless of whether they are AT or AP, too. Again, Russ can very effectively lead an assaulting infantry formation due to their high armor.
Griffons with an infantry company in cover can stay behind the terrain, out of LoS so they don't get sniped by AT, but they can still fire indirect.
Hellhounds with mech infantry can make sense. They shield the transports from hits in the beginning and then pile on to any assaults.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:45 pm |
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Nice example of good tactics and understanding of the rules. I think Jervis made it a point to try and make the rules reflect modern tactics, somewhat. Mech Infantry operating with Tanks is what it's all about ...
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Tas
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:31 am |
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Thanks neal- that was very clear and an excellent example of success in mixing unit typess.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:52 pm |
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My pleasure.
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Neal
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dafrca
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Post subject: Grey Knights are here... Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:16 pm |
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?Tanks were originally designed in WW1 to support Infantry to break the stalemate of the trenchs that wide use of automatic weapons (machine guns) and rapid firing breach loading artillery had created. ?At the beginning of WW2 the Germans perfected the technique in the "Blitzkrieg" by combining tanks, infantry, artillery and air support. ?And that is basically what all modern armies use today. ?The US has taken it to the next logical step in the "Air-Land Battle Doctrine" successfully used in recent conflicts ... ?If you don't play Epic with combined arms, you may as well play WHFB ! 
?