Can a unit end its consolidation move within ZOC of an enemy unit that was not the target of an assault? And how do you play it if it's impossible for them to land outside of it?


Our scenario, Eldar vs SM. Takes place just after setup, SM won the initiative and this was their first move.

The Eldar had an Engine of Vaul Troupe lined up at the base of a hill leading up to some cliffs, and an Aspect Warhost (4x Swooping Hawks, 4x Mr Shiny Spears) lined up across the length of the table with 1xSS and 1xSH in close enough to the Vauls to count as intermingled.
SM Aircraft flew in at the top of the cliff, disembarked some Terminators and assaulted the Vauls only, the Aspects offered some support fire, but it wasn't enough and the Vauls lost and fled. The Terminators consolidated back to the top of the cliff, ending within the 10CM ZOC of the Swooping Hawk. Because of the terrain they couldn't have moved any further or in any other direction to escape the ZOC.

Harking back to the rules, they state that you cannot enter the ZOC of an enemy unit that isn't part of the assault target formation (1.12.3), but the FAQ entry on scouts (2.1.12) does allow it to prevent using the scouts to create an un-assaultable block of formations. The consolidation rules state that you cannot enter someones ZOC during the consolidate, there is no mention of if you are already in it (1.12.9).

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We played that is was alright to leave them at the top of the hill. If the SH scout had stayed in place then the marines would have had to charge them on their next turn.


TL;DR Assault one formation, win, consolidate but cannot escape ZOC of other formation units. What happens?

I actually think you probably had to claim the two formations intermingled to actually carry out the assault.

The FAQ allows you to enter other formations ZOC's after you have entered the targets formation ZOC. If the SH was close enough to be intermingled the chances are its ZOC extended past the EoV's ZOC and therefore you couldn't engage without intermingling.....this then brings up the thorny air assault question that is again be debated elsewhere.

The FAQ is designed to stop you placing scouts 8cm behind your formations to stop people assault with out exposing your scouts.

@ShinySpear - I did not realise the Termies were within the SH ZoC. Well, no move was forced on the Terminators as they were subsequently assaulted by the Swooping Hawk and others, with their next turn being well out of anyoones ZoC.



I wonder about your intermingled interpretation Mephiston (In fact I think it may be misleading - or I am totally misunderstanding what you are saying), since the rules say the attacker can choose whether or not to assault the intermingled formation. In this situation the Swooping Hawk (and others) were further away from the thunderhawk than all the BTS, which the Termies then engaged, so the Termies did go directly towards the nearest enemy and they were all units in the BTS formation.


Hena - do you mean the Termies should have consolidated towards the Swooping Hawk?? This does not sound right to me as they are not assaulting in that case. Otherwise what is preventing them from in fact mmoving into base contact with said Swooping Hawk? Does not seem right. (or again I may be isunderstanding)

It's all a matter of which formations ZOC the assaulting formation entered FIRST.

If it was the Engine of Vaul's all is good. If not you couldn't enter the Swooping Hawks ZOC as you were not assaulting them. It you declare them intermingled they are considered one formation so you could then enter the SH ZOC without problem.

Does that help?

Well... not sure. I *think* the Thunderhawk landed in both formations ZoC but the (ultimately doomed) Engines of Vaul were closer to the Thawk so the termies went straight there.

It is possible the THawk was just outside the SH ZoC, in which case we are in the 'scout screening a formation from behind' scenario.

Hmm, I wonder if you played this correctly because the Termies should be able to get out of the enemy ZoC even if they are scouts.

Paraphrasing 1.7.3, you must charge directly towards the unit whose ZoC you have entered, and for these purposes you can ignore any subsequent ZoC on the way to combat with that unit. When placing the THawk in an air-assault, it must only land in the ZoC of units from the target formation (the EoV); it may not land in the ZoC of other enemy (the scouts). In this respect, entering two ZoCs 'simultaneously' is prohibited.

To be able to close with the EoV, you must have entered its ZoC first, implying that the ZoC of the Swooping Hawks only extended a few cms beyond the hull of the EoV. As such, the termies consolidation move of 5cms should take it back out of the ZoC of the SHawks.

To remain in the Swooping Hawks ZoC after consolidation suggests that their ZoC extended more than 5cms beyond that of the hull of the EoV; so you must have entered the Swooping Hawk Zoc first, and thus should have charged them not the EoV!

Note,

1. When assaulting, it is not compulsory to move into B-B with the target, merely to be within 15cms of one or more units. If you are concerned to avoid enemy ZoC under similar circumstances, you can stay ~11 cms away well outside enemy ZoC (and most countercharges).
2. This is another instance where that troublesome FAQ on projecting scouts ZoC is confusing rather than helpfull. It was written in an attempt to try to clarify exactly the dilema you faced - I hope I have done better

(rules reference corrected)

I will add some clarifications.

The SH was in Base contact with one of the Vauls.
There were two others, one of them may have been <5cm from the SH to have his ZOC completely eclipsed.
The third Vaul ZOC extended outside of the SH ZOC but the Vaul unit was fully inside.

It may have been possible to enter ZOC of the third Vaul first by landing by the side of the cliff. But LOS would have to be taken into consideration and could cause problems.

The aircraft landed at the top of the hill, more than 5CM from the Vauls but still within ZOC of the SH.

The action had been declared as an engage against the Vauls so I allowed entry into the SH ZOC as per FAQ ruling.

At the end of the assault the Vauls fled and the SM consolidated. They were still within ZOC of the original SH and could not get out due to the cliffs.

As the rules are quite loose, the best thing to do is to play what you feel is correct and just run with it.

The scout rule was put in so as to allow a unit to get into Base-to-Base contact with an opponent and not be prevented by the scout's ZoC.


This is not allowed - the TH needed to land touching one of the Vauls (barging) for this to work.

Ginger, 1.7.4 is actually formation coherency. I guess you were actually refering to 1.12.3 Make Charge Move? Anyway, it states A charging unit that enters a zone of control must move into base contact with the nearest enemy whose zone of control has been entered. so that would mean I could charge the scouts THROUGH the Vauls if I so chose?



Huh??

Sorry Tim

Are you saying the TH should land in base contact with the Vauls in order to engage?? Why? It landed within FF range of the Vauls and we stated we were assaulting the Vauls.

Otherwise one could say you can only assault a formation being screened by scouts from behind if you CC the formation you are assaulting... or are you implying if I don't CC then I *have* to assault the intermingled formation (ie both formations) as one rather than just selecting the vauls?

If as indicated by Ginger one should assault the formation who's ZoC was entered first, then the TH could land within 5 cm of the Vauls and then the assault should be a go on the Vauls.


Finally - The OP's post seems to have been hijacked. The question was about the winning formation's consolidation move.

My question was about the consolidation move, but only in this limited scenario. If we find that it is not possible for this scenario to happen then the consolidation move won't happen so that original question is irrelevant.

No, I misquoted the reference 1.7.3 (corrected above).
While the formation activates as a whole, the units move individually as the situation regarding ZoC changes as the assault takes place. So, on a unit by unit basis, the 1st unit moves towards the enemy, hits an enemy ZoC and must then charge that particular unit. Only at this point does it ignore other ZoCs that it subsequently passes through. If it gets into B-B, that enemy ZoC disipates. The 2nd unit then moves, and may be able to get further before hitting an enemy ZoC.

However, under 1.12.3 the 2nd and subsequent units may not enter the ZoC of any enemy unit outside the target formation (until they have got into the ZoC of a target unit).

In your case, it sounds like only one EoV had it's ZoC clear of the Swooping Hawk ZoCs, and that ZoC ceased after the first Termi hit it, meaning that the other Termies could not close on a legitimate target from the EoV formation. This is a normal situation in Epic, and usually means that you must choose either to Firefight the EoV formation from outside the Swooping Hawk ZoCs, or you must declare the two formations intermingled allowing you to move into B-B with the Swooping Hawks (which is actually a better option given that they are ground units allowing you to use the Termie CC stats!).

The Thunderhawk is not allowed to finish it's ground move in a ZoC of a unit not being engaged if it first has not already entered the ZoC of a unit in the formation that is being engage so landing outside of Vaul's ZoC but in a separate ZoC, be they scouts or not is not allowed.

If you barge into the Vaul then you don't have that worry, but I'll conceed that you might not need to, however the question arises as to who's ZoC you enter first.

Also a WE can always choose whether to use it's CC or FF if there are valid targets for both.