Ohh you break my heart pixel geek, here I was thinking it was a masterpiece
Feedback noted (again) Jimmy! I might actually act on it one of these days...

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Regardless, I at least have Vassal 1.54 set up to have all the perquisite units!

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My thoughts on this. The list needs less/no Chimeras in order to keep the theme and to make it stand out compared to other lists. From a fluff point of view can you honestly imagine an IG Commander, or SC, having fought their way up the chain of command opting to go to war in a Chimera instead of a Crassus?! I would even go so far as to remove all Chimera and Leman Russ options from the list to keep the emphasis on heavy tanks. I'd keep Salamanders as it makes sense that they'd be scouts and keep Centaurs for specialised operations.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the thread and seeing where this list goes.

Btw, I'm not a search bot just a very long time lurker with an interest in the Heavy Mech list.

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At the top of the previous page, you said that the companies are core + 1-3 platoons for 2-4 platoons total. But in the v0.8 PDF, it says clearly and in multiple locations that the companies are core + 2-3 platoons for 3-4 platoons total.

Which is it? 450 points for a bare-minimum Heavy Mech Company and 550 points if you want 2 infantry platoons seems like a fairly extreme restriction to pose on the list.

Hi! I'm using the pandemic time in building a Heavy Mech Army and with the "new" changes on the Hellhounds cost, i'm wondering if this will apply to Heavy Mech.

Thank you.

I hope this list is still in development. The thread seems quiet, but this forum doesn't seem to move at lightspeed either. I think the flavor of the list is great and the pick and mix design makes it much easier to get units that are usually formation upgrades onto the table.

Looking through the list I have a mix of possible typos that I thought I should highlight and questions about the overall design of the list regarding unit choices. I hope this is useful feedback! Comments/questions are numbered for ease of reference.

1: In an earlier post you said that requiring heavy mech companies to take 2-3 additional platoons was a typo, and it should be 1-3. Is that true of heavy tank companies as well?

2: Just wanted to clarify whether the Hellhound Platoon is supposed to be 100 points like you said in the thread or 150 like it says on the army list.

3: The Devil dog melta cannon and destroyer tank hunter weapons are both listed as ATx+, MW, with no AP value. According to the tournament pack rules, MW shooting attacks just have a MWx+ value. With the devil dog I think it might just be a typo, since the multi melta has identical AT5+, MW stats. I'm not sure about the Destroyer tank hunter though.

4: Following up on that, the melta cannon seems a little anemic for being the only blast melta weapon in the 7th edition ruleset. Making it just a multi-melta with longer range seems lacking to me. Maybe MW4+, since it's a little easier to vaporize your foes with a melta blast than a single shot ala the multi melta?

5: Following up again, I think the destroyer's Laser destroyer should be AT3+, lance. Making it a macro weapon that follows the tourney pack rules doesn't seem right, because a laser destroyer is a lascannon on steroids and lascannons have no AP value.

6: Finally moving to a new thought, I'd like to suggest unit swaps to keep the theme of the list more distinctly "heavy armor". I agree with previous posts that chimeras seem out of place in this list. What about replacing them with Dracosan Armored Transports? They're techically from the Horus Heresy rules, but they fit the theme you're after. The Australian Heresy rules have them as DC2 WEs, so they might need to have their stats massaged, but it seems like they'd fit the "heavy mech" theme better than chimeras and still give an alternative to Crassiuses (Crassii?)

7: In that same vein, I'd suggest swapping the leman russes with Malcadors from the Vraks list. The basic malcador is identical to the Russ but 15cm move, and in the 28mm game had the option to upgrade the hull heavy bolter to a demolisher cannon. The variants come with demolisher cannons by default, and either have 3x twin heavy bolters or a twin lascannon and two singles. I think going with Malcadors might enhance the feel of heavy armor and make the list a little more distinct in that regard, especially if you give the default malcador a hull demolisher cannon. This might call for adjusting points costs of the tank platoon and squadron though.

8: Why is the stormtrooper formation named "Tempestus Scions," but the description says six Stormtroopers? The unit stats also refers to them as stormtroopers. I'd stick with one name or the other.

9: If you elect to stick with chimeras rather than dracosans, I'd remove the ability to put Ogryns in chimeras. Part of the tabletop fluff was that Ogryns were scared of dark enclosed spaces like Chimeras and refused to ride in them. This is purely a fluff concern though, so I'm not sure it's that important.

10: Is there a reason the Vulcan Mega Bolter version of the Macharius is command tank only? I know vanquisher cannons are rare in the fluff, which is partially why those versions of Russes/Machariuses are limited, but I didn't think Mega bolters were that rare. It might be a balance problem I'm not seeing.

There are 3 versions of the Laser Destroyer, none of them have any AP:

- Ulani's version: AT2+, Sniper (IMHO the best approach).
- Vraks' version: AT3+, MW. It is a MW (doesn't allow a save), but can't affect Infantry as it is an AT weapon. This is a good approach too.
- Minerva's version: AT4+, TK. It is a TK (doesn't allow any save), but can't affect Infantry as it is an AT weapon. This is the worst approach, very unreliable, and extremely overcosted on top of that.

Giving it Lance, I think is even a worse option, it would be extremely good against RA targets and not any good against normal tanks.

Edit: there's another option: use the profile of the Rapier Laser as a base.

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always preferred the Ulani version myself.

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I was under the impression a shooting macroweapon attack had to be the MWx+ format, and only melee attacks could get the MW special ability without having an MWx+ attack value? If You can have a shooting weapon that has MW as a special ability without the MWx+ attack value I retract my compliant.

Me too, I’ll add it to my list of proposed changes.

Well - been a long time between posts over here, and the forum is pretty quiet these days. In the meantime, I've been doing a bit of thinking about this list as possible motivation for building an IG force along these lines (although skimming through the thread I was saying the same thing 10 years back on p2 or p3, so who knows if it'll ever happen).

I think this list is a really cool concept and that Matty_C has done great work progressing it, but the v0.8 list changes seem like an overreach on the changes needed to bring down v0.7's powe level. Going from 0.7 to 0.8, the key changes made were:

• Armour on Praetors and Dominions reduced from 4+ to 5+ RA
• +50pt increase in cost for Crassus, Praetors, Dominion. Pretty harsh when the support units have just lost ~1/3 of their resilience through an armour downgrade!
• Increase in core company structure from 2 platoons minimum to 3 platoons minimum. Very harsh when most of those platoons have just seen a +50pt bump in cost!

Each of these changes might be reasonable in isolation, but collectively I think they go too far (which might have contributed to activity dropping off in this thread) and lead to an army list without much scope for fun gameplay. I've had a bit of a think this week about the list structuring and how to bring out the best of it while maintaining a distinct theme from Krieg and the other armoured lists, and have had a few discussions over on the discord server to that end. See the attached PDF.

Changes include:

• -50pts to Crassus, Praetors, Dominus reverting the change made in v0.8. Points have been increased somewhat for base formations instead.
• Increase to cost of base Company formations. Heavy Mech Company now 225 base (Commander + 1 Infantry Platoon); Heavy Tank Company now 275 base (Macharius Command Tank + 1 Heavy Tank Platoon). The intention here is for a slightly overcosted 'base' formation combined with efficiently costed platoons to encourage different large company builds.
• Options for Chimeras removed across the board. This is an all-Crassus list now, unless you're a Stormtrooper.
• Heavy Tank Company now 0-1 per 1500 pts to prevent all-Macharius lists. Open to this being 0-1 per Heavy Mechanised Company instead.
• Fire Support Platoon shrunk to 4 Support Squads in a Crassus, allowing it to have the same cost (+150 pts) as an Infantry Platoon which I think makes the option more attractive. There may be a fun gameplay option here around using Crassus to rush forward massed Fire Support units and bunker down in the midfield with an unreasonable number of autocannons.
• Tank Platoon cost raised to 200 pts (3x Leman Russ or Demolishers), consistent with DKoK.
• Praetor Sky-Killer platoon reduced to 100 pts (0-1 per Company), which I think is reasonable given the weaker armour (RA5+) and firepower (2x AA5+) of the current iteration. Dedicated Sky-Killer Battery reinstated (2x Praetors for 225 pts).
• Superheavy Artillery Battery now 350 pts for 2 units, with option to add +1 for 150 pts. Praetor Assault Launcher retained at 3BP, Slow-Firing (as v0.8 ). Effectively, the superheavy artillery battery now gives the same damage output as a Manticore or Bombard trio but pays +100 pts for added resilience (4 hits rather than 3, 5+ RA vs 6+). This may be a little overcosted, but the extra resilience of 2x Praetors over 3x Manticores is pretty significant - these units will be mucher harder to break or suppress with counterbattery fire, so the cost may be reasonable.
• Tank Hunter Squadron removed as more of an armoured company thing.
• Hellhound simplified by removing nonstandard variants
• Singleton Warhound option removed
• Crassus loadout choices simplified by offering two choices: 2x Heavy Flamers (upping FF to 4+) or 2x Autocannons, in addition to 2x Heavy Bolters base.
  

Finally, a few attempts at writing powerful lists in different themes to see if this list is simply doing 'the same thing but better' or if it actually forces some difference in theme. These all look fairly reasonable to me, but I'd be interested to hear if others disagree.