Happy to help. I’ve actually already played the third game, but I need a couple of days to write up the battle report.


True, but Guild Squadrons are faster and even cheaper, which generally makes them even better objective grabbers. Meanwhile, Warriors are really good if you need an infantry option.

I’m absolutely not saying that berserkers are bad (far from it) – only that they aren’t the obvious best choice in most circumstances IMO. At least not as a medium size formation, where they are in direct competition with small warrior brotherhoods with a warlord and a rapier upgrade. Maybe they just function better as small units.


Ok, so that makes a huge difference to their usefulness. In my first game, I missed the part about them being able to move and close assault. I’ll absolutely give them another go.

If you’ll excuse the level of backseat driving, I’d personally argue for giving them a 5+ FF and 6+ CC. If you go way back to 1st edition Epic (technically Space Marine at that point), you get a more detailed weapons layout. If you compare them to Rhinos, they are slightly worse in close assault but carry much more impressive ranged weapons, so IMO it makes sense for them to be better at range.

Pictures of the old stat cards are here if you’re interested: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MbBu82 ... sp=sharing

And the Rhinos for reference: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MeleW- ... sp=sharing

Also, the Mole really needs to have a 4+ reinforced armor save, and maybe some sort of ranged weapon if it’s to be of any use.

Anyway, so far I’m having a blast with the list, so this is all mostly picking at the details. It’s overall really well put together IMO.

Here's my third battle report. My next three games will probably all take place during an upcoming tournament, so I don't expect that I'll be able to do quite as detailed write-ups, but this one got the full treatment (link below).

Here's the summary:
It was a 3000 point tournament game against Imperial Guard Steel Legion.

Our lists were:

Grindel Stronghold Squats (1.7.2.), 2995 POINTS
==================================================

WARRIOR (M) [500]
Hearthguard, 18 Warriors, Rhinos, Warlord, Grand Warlord

BERSERKER (M) [300]
10 Berserkers, 2 Hearthguard, Rhinos

THUNDERER [340]
6 Thunderers, 3 Rapier

ARTILLERY BATTERY [175]
6 Mole Mortar

GYROCOPTER WING [260]
4 War Hawk

GUILD SQUADRON (M) [270]
6 Guild Bikers, 2 Guildmaster, 4 Guild Trike

THUNDERFIRE BATTERY [175]
3 Thunderfire

AIR ATTACK CORPS [225]
Overlord

LAND TRAIN [575]
Land Train, Dragon Battlecar, Skyhammer Battlecar, Mortar Battlecar, Bomb Battlecar

SUPER-HEAVY ARTILLERY BATTERY [175]
Goliath
-------------------------------------------------

Vs.

Steel Legion (NetEA Tournament Pack (2023-01-03)), 3000 points
==================================================

REGIMENTAL HQ [575]
Supreme Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera, Commissar, Griffon Battery (3 Griffons), 2x Hellhound

INFANTRY COMPANY [250]
Commander, 12 Infantry, Commissar

TANK COMPANY [650]
9 Leman Russ, Commissar, Vanquisher

TANK COMPANY [650]
9 Leman Russ, Commissar, Vanquisher

SENTINEL SQUADRON [100]
4 Sentinels

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Baneblade, Commissar

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Shadowsword, Commissar

BASILISK BATTERY [225]
3 Basilisks

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts

Result: 1-1 by the end of turn 4; points win to IG with 1300-and-a-bit to the Squat's 725.

Link to battle report: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ItTCTM ... sp=sharing

Further thoughts on the 1.7.2 list:
As this was the same list I used in my second game, I won’t go over every single unit again, but here are some selected thoughts about the 1.7.2. list:

Armored opponents: My main take away is that, while the list is very strong against lightly armored enemies, it can struggle a bit against things like Leman Russes.

I did pour as much fire as I could into the tanks in the first couple of turns, but saw very little effect. Meanwhile, all the softer targets on the guard side pretty much melted away as soon as I turned my attention to them.

The main disadvantage, as I see it, is a lack of affordable medium to long range AP options outside of, maybe, Tarantulas, so you generally have to get in close, which can be dangerous.

I'm not saying that this should be changed though, as it’s fine for the list to have some less strong areas, but you have to be aware of it.

Mole Mortars: Once again, these turned out to be absolutely deadly. I really do have to paint up a unit of Thudd Guns, as I’ve heard that they are even better.

Then again, if you compare them to, say, an IG Fire Support Squads and two Hellhounds (which would cost the same), they don’t seem too overpowered, so I suppose that the main advantage is that you can take them on their own.

Land Train: I still think it's great. I do wonder if I should cut the Dragon Battlecar. I have actually fired it at least once in every game so far, but I’m wondering if I couldn't spend the points better elsewhere. This would have the knock-on effect of making the medium Warrior Brotherhood my BTS, but, even though they generally take a lot more fire than the Land Train, they haven’t yet been destroyed, so it would probably be ok.

Trikes, Steel Hawks and War Hawks will help take care of RA units, especially the first two with a double and then support an assault. Lock them up in BtB with Berserkers or Bikes, and fry them with the Multi-meltas.

Thanks for the reports again. If you complete the 6 I think we're 5 away from a vote. I'll bug the guys down in NJ/PA about reports again.

I will take a look at Ork & Squat Warlords again and see about the Mole/Termite stats.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

Yes, that's sort of my thinking as well. I actually brought the four War Hawks specifically for this purpose, but having just four MW attacks (even at 3+) isn’t really enough to seriously threaten a full Leman Russ company. They should be quite good against smaller targets though (like lone superheavies).

I think I’m going to bring six Steel Hawks to the tournament to get that extra anti-armor punch, even though I’m a bit nervous about not having used them before.

Once again, I’m not criticizing this aspect of the list. I think it’s kind of a cool identity for the squats to be the army that blows up infantry at long range but gets in close and personal against tanks.


I should have have the last three ready a couple of days after the tournament, which is on September 6th.

There was also a guy on the discord, who’d just started a squat army as well.

The tournament I’ve written about was last weekend, so here are my final three battle reports.
I came in first BTW

To make it easier to reference I’ll post the summaries separately, but here’s the link to the collected battle reports: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15TeOWP ... drive_link

Game four - 3000 point tournament game:

Grindel Stronghold Squats (1.7.3.), 3000 POINTS
==================================================

WARRIOR (M) [550]
Hearthguard, 18 Warriors, Rhinos, Warlord, Grand Warlord, Rapier

BERSERKER (S) [175]
5 Berserkers, 1 Hearthguard, Termites

THUNDERER (S) [225]
5 Thunderers

ARTILLERY BATTERY (S) [175]
6 Mole Mortar

GYROCOPTER WING (M) [375]
6 Steel Hawk

GUILD SQUADRON (M) [295]
6 Guild Bikers, 2 Guildmaster, 5 Guild Trike

GUILD SQUADRON (S) [180]
4 Guild Bikers, 1 Guildmaster, 2 Guild Trike

THUNDERFIRE BATTERY [175]
3 Thunderfire

AIR ATTACK CORPS (S) [225]
Overlord

LAND TRAIN [450]
Land Train, Skyhammer Battlecar, Mortar Battlecar, Bomb Battlecar

SUPER-HEAVY ARTILLERY BATTERY (S) [175]
Goliath
---------------------

vs.

Steel Legion (NetEA Tournament Pack (2023-01-03)), 3000 POINTS
==================================================

REGIMENTAL HQ [575]
Supreme Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera, Commissar, 2x Hellhound, Griffon Battery (3 Griffons)

TANK COMPANY [825]
9 Leman Russ, Commissar, Vanquisher, Tank Squadron (3 Leman Russ)

INFANTRY COMPANY [250]
Commander, 12 Infantry, Commissar

DEATHSTRIKE MISSILE BATTERY [200]
2 Deathstrike Missile Launchers

SENTINEL SQUADRON [100]
4 Sentinels

FLAK BATTERY [150]
3 Hydra

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Shadowsword, Commissar

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

Result: 1-0 by game end, points win to Squats with 1500 to 899 .

Game five - 3000 point tournament game:

Grindel Stronghold Squats (1.7.3.), 3000 POINTS
==================================================

WARRIOR (M) [550]
Hearthguard, 18 Warriors, Rhinos, Warlord, Grand Warlord, Rapier

BERSERKER (S) [175]
5 Berserkers, 1 Hearthguard, Termites

THUNDERER (S) [225]
5 Thunderers

ARTILLERY BATTERY (S) [175]
6 Mole Mortar

GYROCOPTER WING (M) [375]
6 Steel Hawk

GUILD SQUADRON (M) [295]
6 Guild Bikers, 2 Guildmaster, 5 Guild Trike

GUILD SQUADRON (S) [180]
4 Guild Bikers, 1 Guildmaster, 2 Guild Trike

THUNDERFIRE BATTERY [175]
3 Thunderfire

AIR ATTACK CORPS (S) [225]
Overlord

LAND TRAIN [450]
Land Train, Skyhammer Battlecar, Mortar Battlecar, Bomb Battlecar

SUPER-HEAVY ARTILLERY BATTERY (S) [175]
Goliath
-----------------

vs.

Emperor's Children (4.1 - Approved), 2995 POINTS
==================================================

DAEMON POOL [135]
9 Lesser Daemon

RETINUE [350]
6 Chaos Marine units, Replace 2 chaos marine units with 2 Noise Marine units, Stalker, Chaos Warlord (Supreme Commander)

RETINUE [415]
6 Chaos Marine units, Sorcerer Lord, Daemonic Pact, Icon Bearer, 8 Dreadclaws, 2 Emperors Children Dreadnought

NOISE MARINE RETINUE [380]
6 Noise Marine, Sorcerer Lord, Daemonic Pact, Icon Bearer, 6 Dreadclaws

EMPEROR'S CHILDREN TERMINATORS [445]
Chaos Lord, 6 Terminator, Daemonic Pact, Icon Bearer

ARMOURED COMPANY [270]
4 Emperors Children Predator, Stalker

KNIGHT PACK [450]
6 Hell-Knight

HARBINGER [400]
1 Harbinger Bomber

DEVASTATION CLASS CRUISER [150]

Result: Squat win, 3-2

Game six - 3000 point tournament game:

Grindel Stronghold Squats (1.7.3.), 3000 POINTS
==================================================

WARRIOR (M) [550]
Hearthguard, 18 Warriors, Rhinos, Warlord, Grand Warlord, Rapier

BERSERKER (S) [175]
5 Berserkers, 1 Hearthguard, Termites

THUNDERER (S) [225]
5 Thunderers

ARTILLERY BATTERY (S) [175]
6 Mole Mortar

GYROCOPTER WING (M) [375]
6 Steel Hawk

GUILD SQUADRON (M) [295]
6 Guild Bikers, 2 Guildmaster, 5 Guild Trike

GUILD SQUADRON (S) [180]
4 Guild Bikers, 1 Guildmaster, 2 Guild Trike

THUNDERFIRE BATTERY [175]
3 Thunderfire

AIR ATTACK CORPS (S) [225]
Overlord

LAND TRAIN [450]
Land Train, Skyhammer Battlecar, Mortar Battlecar, Bomb Battlecar

SUPER-HEAVY ARTILLERY BATTERY (S) [175]
Goliath
-------------------------

vs.

Tyranids (NetEA Tournament Pack (2024-02-12)), 3000 points
==================================================

TYRANID SWARM [295]
5 Termagants, 4 Hormagaunts, 3x Tyranid Warriors

TYRANID SWARM [295]
5 Termagants, 4 Hormagaunts, 3x Tyranid Warriors

TYRANID SWARM [295]
5 Termagants, 4 Hormagaunts, 3x Tyranid Warriors

TYRANID SWARM [295]
5 Termagants, 4 Hormagaunts, 3x Tyranid Warriors

TYRANID SWARM [260]
6 Termagants, 2x Tyranid Warriors, 4 Hormagaunts

BIOVORE SWARM [150]
5 Biovores (Small Swarm)

BIOVORE SWARM [150]
5 Biovores (Small Swarm)

GENESTEALER SWARM [200]
8 Genestealers, Brood Lord

LICTOR SWARM [185]
5 Lictors

LICTOR SWARM [185]
5 Lictors

HARRIDIAN SWARM [190]
Harridan, 2 Gargoyles

HARRIDIAN SWARM [190]
Harridan, 2 Gargoyles

TRYGON SWARM [310]
4 Trygon, 2 Raveners

Result: 0-0 by game end, points win to Squats with 937 to 580

Post-tournament thoughts:

I won all three of my games as the only player in the tournament and therefore took the first place. What’s not to like. That said, all of my games were quite closely fought and the last one might very well have swung in the ’nids’ favor if we’d continued, so I don’t think it should be taken as evidence that the Grindel list is completely overpowered.

It is very powerful though, and, perhaps even more importantly, fairly easy to pilot.

The mere fact that I managed to get a Reaver-sized (albeit slow) War Engine, a 33 unit formation and 11 activations into the same army should tell you that it’s a strong list.

Overall though, most of the units I’ve used in this army seem to be costed just about right, but I do have some thoughts on a couple of them. This is in addition to any comments form the earlier battle reports.

Steel Hawks: These proved to be an absolute menace and played a decisive role in all of my games. I’m very happy that I took a slightly larger formation than normal, as I don’t think they’d have worked as well as the “standard” four unit formation.

Having to get within 15 cm to do anything can be a bit tricky (35 cm move and skimmer helps a lot though), but once you do, they are brutal. Also, even though it’s tricky to set up, if you do get to do a Sustained Fire attack with them, I don’t think there are many things in the game that won’t just melt away.

If you wanted to bring them down in power just a tad, you could change their 2 x multi-meltas to a single twin-linked multi-melta (i.e. 15 cm 4+ MW, plus MW FF). That would reduce their killing potential a bit and make them slightly riskier to use.

Having now tried all three gyrocopter variants, I really appreciate how they fill quite different roles on the battlefield with fairly minimal rules differences, so that’s very cool.

Warrior Brotherhoods: I’ve been using a medium sized Brotherhood for a couple of games now, and it’s apparent that they are a very (perhaps too) good deal - especially if you compare them to an Imperial Guard mechanized company.

I think that the deciding factor is the free transports. For smaller units the discount doesn’t matter too much, but it eventually becomes noticeable as they grow in size.

To get a unit that is mostly comparable to my Warrior Brotherhood, a Steel Legion player would need to pay about 650 points (A Regimental HQ plus an extra infantry platoon with three Chimeras) - i.e. a full 100 points more. I realize that Chimeras are better than Rhinos, but Squat warriors are better then IG infantry, so I think it mostly evens out.

Reducing the discount for medium/large formations wouldn’t work, as you could just add warrior units on their own, so I really think that you’d either need to up the cost of Warrior units (and potentially Berserkers as well) to 25 or tax transports (10 points each seems about right).

Thunderers: I’ve had mixed experiences with these. They are not bad as such, but compared to Warriors they seem slightly overcosted.

I think that one of the issues is their slightly mismatched armament (which, to be clear, is exactly what it should be, fluff wise). They really want to be standing precisely 30 cm away and blast enemy infantry formations on Sustained Fire orders, but that’s just very hard to pull off in actual practice, and in most other situations they are quite underwhelming.

They also seem fairly expensive if you compare them to IG Support Squads (25 points), so I think they could stand to be brought down to 35 points each.

Overlord Airships: It is my considered opinion that these belong in the support category. They are super-heavies, not titans.

In many ways, the Overlords serve the same role in this list as Baneblades do for IG and Supa-Stompas do for orks, and both of those are support choices, so there’s good precedent for this.

This would make Overlords compete for space with Guild Squadrons and Gyrocopters, but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. You could design a separate “Guild Expedition" army list though, for those players who want a list that's analogous to the ork "Speed Freaks”.

You could probably make the same argument for Goliaths, but I could go either way on those. Don’t ask me to explain why, it just feels different.

Thanks Croaker. I'll take a look at the suggestions and see what the NJ/PA crew are thinking. If I can get a few more games out of them we'll be good for a vote.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17