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Sisters of Battle/Ordo Hereticus Army List - 2025-02-05

 Post subject: Sisters of Battle/Ordo Hereticus Army List - 2025-02-05
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 7:59 pm 
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OK, this is the new Sisters of Battle list is going forward:

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As with the Ordo Xenos list two years backs my goal is to put this up for approval by the end of the year. I'll be running games and posting battle reports for it this year. I'm basing it off of the Witch Hunters codex that came out for 40k3e (as it's the era of most of the other NetEA lists). It will give people the option of playing a straight Adepta Sororitas list or a combined Sororitas/IG list requisitioned by a Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor.

The changelist is below. Overall, my goals were to: 1) follow the pattern I laid out with Ordo Xenos, 2) represent the options available in the Witch Hunters Codex, and 3) match the stats from the codex with the 40k counterparts of established EA units/weapons/abilities.

Special Rules
  • All Sororitas formations reduced to 2+ initiative to reflect their training being on par with storm troopers. Also, I didn't think EA needed another high initiative/armour/FF army. 2+ helps to further differentiate them from (Chaos) Marines.
  • Acts of Faith receives more options to compensate for the reduced initiative and adds a good decision point for the player.

Army List
  • Retributor and Seraphim moved to core, Exorcists moved to support, to stress an infantry focus in the list.
  • Core:Support ratio changed from 1:2 to 1:1 because of the additional core formation choices and to stress Sororitas infantry builds.
  • Inducted IG and Inq. Formations ported over from Order Xenos to replace existing Inq formations/units.
  • All Sororitas formations gain upgrade options for increased core unit size, with Battle Sisters getting the option for upgrades via replacement as well.
  • 0-1 per 2000 point restriction put on Repentia for fluff reasons.

Units
  • Canoness loses inspiring as the Priest can add it to the stand
  • Living Saint made a character upgrade so it can be put on Palatine or Canoness units, special rules redundant with those two characters were removed.
  • Mistress lost her extra attack, one lady with a whips shouldn't be dishing out the same punishment as 5 Tactical marines.
  • Priest lost invulnerable save.
  • Arco-flagellant save dropped to 5+ but gains invulnerable save
  • Battle Sisters, Dominions and Retributors drop to CC 6+ as they're on par WS/A/I-wise with Guardsmen.
  • Penitent Engine dropped to armor 5+ (only slightly tougher than a Sentinel) and lose a Heavy Flamer as it only had one in 3e.
  • Exorcist went to 2x AP5+/AT5+. 1d6 Krak missiles in 40k doesn't translate to 2x AT4+ in EA.
  • Immolator got Heavy Flamer option with better FF.
  • Emperor's Chapel renamed to Fireblade (Stormlord with different weapons) and got some AT shots.
  • Cathedral of Purification stated closer to a Reaver as it's a well-tested unit.
  • Went all-in the FW aircraft stats, Marauder Heavy Bombers and Lightning Fighters added.
  • Lightning Strike went from 2xAT4+ missiles to a single AT3+ missile.
  • Added Titans because an Inquisitor would have access to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Sisters of Battle/Ordo Hereticus Army List - 2025-02-05
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 7:40 pm 
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We will be testing the list.
Do we post battle reports in here when we get to it?


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 Post subject: Re: Sisters of Battle/Ordo Hereticus Army List - 2025-02-05
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 4:02 am 
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On TacComms? Sure, I usually do a separate thread for each report. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Sisters of Battle/Ordo Hereticus Army List - 2025-02-05
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2025 4:45 pm 
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I will check it out Dave, thanks for taking over.

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 Post subject: Re: Sisters of Battle/Ordo Hereticus Army List - 2025-02-05
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:26 pm 
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I found the recent post on the proposed update very interesting. I’ve been using a Sisters army for about six years now, mainly against Codex Marines and Black Legion at 3,000 points in a non-competitive environment.

Overall, I think the proposals are perfectly acceptable. I have no issue with downgrading Initiative to 2+, nor disagree with the majority of unit stat changes. The Lightning Fighter is a welcome addition and the titans will certainly help out at times. However, I do have reservations about the inter-relationship between the new Initiative 2+, the new Acts of Faith, and the newly revised CC 6+ value of many Sisters.

In the previous v.2.1 list the Sisters were Initiative 1+. If they wished to avail themselves of the sole Act of Faith they modified this by -1, effectively succeeding with their action test roll on 2+. They thus had a one-in-six chance of failing the Act of Faith order and adopting Hold instead.

The Sisters now have Initiative 2+. If they avail themselves of any of the new Acts of Faith they again modify this by -1, effectively now needing an action test roll of 3+. They would now have a much greater one-in-three chance of failing an Act of Faith order.

In my view it is always very much better to succeed with any chosen order than it is to fail an action test and be forced to adopt Hold. To risk increasing your chances of failing your action there must be an adequate reward to incentivise players to attempt it. It is here that I believe the inter-relationship of the above mentioned factors may be unsatisfactory. I think that the new risk-reward relationship may actually discourage use of the Acts of Faith with the reward gained being insufficient to justify the risk of the increased chance of action test failure.

Furthermore, as they currently stand, I think that the five new Acts of Faith are not of roughly equal utility and some, perhaps even only one, may be predominantly chosen in preference to all the others. I wonder too whether the new Acts of Faith rule may now prove to add more complication than its utility justifies. My preference would be to keep matters as straightforward as possible.

My view of the new Acts is as follows:

1) Hand of the Emperor. Superficially, this appears rather powerful but I think its effects will be quite limited. If the Sisters were Codex Marines with a CC value of 4+ then this option would indeed be attractive as half of all attacks on average would result in hits, all of which would benefit from Macro-weapon. The revised Sisters’ CC value of 6+ will however see only one attack in six on average result in a hit, so perhaps only Seraphim will really benefit from this Act. It is, in my view, a very marginal gain in return for the one-in-three chance of failing to activate.

2) Divine Guidance. This seems much more attractive with most Sisters benefitting from a modified FF value of 3+. However, the Sisters have relatively little difficulty in hitting in a FF with their ordinary value of 4+. As with Hand of the Emperor I don’t think the additional benefit justifies the risk of failing your Engage action.

3) The Passion. Another superficially powerful ability that may fail to deliver. As most Sisters have CC 6+, again on average only one pre-emptive attack in six will result in a hit. The benefit of First Strike really kicks in if one can denude several enemy units before they can attack back. Again, only Seraphim may really benefit (and Repentia don’t qualify). Is this another marginal gain for the increased chance of failing the action test?

4) Light of the Emperor. This is identical to the previous single Act of Faith benefit. It applies to all eligible Sisters and its utility remains unchanged. This is fine, but is it now worth doubling your chances of failing to activate to receive it? I don’t think so.

5) Spirits of the Martyr. If I were to choose a new-style Act of Faith, this is the only one where I consider the new risk-reward approaches acceptability, primarily as the benefits last until the end of the turn. This can help the Sisters survive the inevitable enemy counterattacks. There is really nothing to complain about here except that it may in fact be too powerful! Sisters have armour 4+ and can make very good use of the Reinforced Armour re-roll. It would not nearly be so good for an Ork with 6+ armour!

To summarise, I don’t think the benefits as currently constituted are generally worth the risk of losing a chosen action. I don’t think this is a result of just one thing but rather it comes from a combination of factors. If the Sisters CC value were reinstated to 5+ then potentially that may help redress the balance but it is clear you want to keep them at CC 6+. If the Sisters were again Initiative 1+ then the chance of activation failure using the Acts would be just one-in-six again, and might justify the risk. I don’t think that’s what you want to do either, and I also actually support the change to Initiative 2+.

So, some preamble before I suggest my solution. One of the most significant difficulties I perceive for Sisters in having a CC value of 6+ is that they are now more likely to lose an assault, either their own Engage action or a subsequent enemy counter-Engage. In my view, winning an assault is crucial to succeeding with Sisters given their poor long-range firepower and consequent inability to “stand-off” and shoot instead. The Sisters will naturally try to use their FF value in an assault wherever possible but the reality is that their enemy will prioritise getting them into base contact, to force them to use their CC value. Once contacted in CC the Sisters are now only hitting on sixes rather than on 5+ (thus halving their chances of hitting). If defeated, the Sisters may also suffer increasingly disproportionate casualties from the rout as the disparity of casualties caused by each side will now be greater (to the dis-benefit of the Sisters).

Keeping the new rules and stats, a solution might be to enable the Sisters to more easily survive a rout after losing an assault by using the original Act of Faith rule (now Light of the Emperor) which, by making units Fearless, prevents the additional casualties. As only the infantry now benefit their transports will suffer but that’s likely to be what a player would chose to eliminate anyway.

My proposal would be to:

1) Retain the new initiative rating of 2+.
2) Replace the new Acts of Faith with a revised version of the previous Act of Faith rule, a rule that has been under test for a number of years and has not been discarded by the current revision.
3) Remove the -1 modifier to an action test and instead make the Act of Faith an integral benefit of passing the action test. As the Sisters now ordinarily activate on the same score they needed previously to obtain the Act of Faith this is, in essence, not a material change, except that vehicles are perhaps rightly no longer eligible.

Thus, all eligible Sisters (as per the new rules) would now be “faithful” once they successfully activate until the end of the turn. This method retains the Sisters vulnerability should their opponents act first but otherwise always gives them a benefit once they have activated. Though they may now lose more assaults, they will better survive the consequences of losing, giving them the potential of continuing the fight next turn by rallying in the end phase. Perhaps that might help reflect their tenacity and determination now that they “fight” less effectively?

My suggested revised Acts of Faith special rule might read as follows:

SPECIAL RULE
Acts of Faith
All missions and Dominion formations are faithful. When a faithful formation passes its action test, it carries out the chosen action as usual. In addition, all of its infantry units gain fearless and invulnerable save until the end of the end phase. Formations that fail their action test do not receive these benefits.


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