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T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force

 Post subject: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:17 pm 
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Hi

I’ve hade an idea for a third list for my beloved T’au empire for some time.
Hoping that the Vior'la list will soon enter the Tournament pack we will have one
T’au with lots of Hammerheads and infantry ,
and one packing all the Heavy Battle suits.

This list that I’ve begun working on ,
will see a slight mix ,
also the Hazard suit will be heavily featured here.
I’ve chosen Ke’lshan as the sept to represent this list,
as they are said to have mastered
The use of Hazard suits,
also it was on their Home planet that the
XV107, XV109 as well as the KX139 was developed.
They where made to help battle the heavy onslaught of Tyranids
and other Aliens constantly Invading their sept world.

I’ve made four different Hazard versions ,
don’t know if the final version will
carry all four or just one in the end ,
we’ll see. I’ve also made a Ke’lshan version of the KX139 that
Is also armed with their standard Tri-axis Ion Cannons.
I’ve also introduced the upgraded XV25
Stealthsuit. Although they can be upgraded within the Steath formation,
their function on the list is to a big part as “spotters” ( adding marker lights)

If you have any thoughts or ideas feel free to post them up.

For the Greater Good


Attachments:
File comment: Moved Fire Warrrior Formation from Core to support and added a new optional loadout with Pathfinders instead of the drones.

Removed Pathfinder Formation.

Changed the Stealthformation from 6 XV15 to 4 XV25, with Shas'el

Switched the Riptide in the Retaliation Cadre into a XV107

.......

Ke’lshan Planetary Force 1.2.pdf [110.23 KiB]
Downloaded 17 times
Ke’lshan Planetary Force 1.0.pdf [299.27 KiB]
Downloaded 70 times


Last edited by Cyguns on Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:34 pm 
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Here is google calculator sheet with witch one can use as a crude army builder.
Open it with your google account , copy the document to your own google sheets and build away


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... vUglc/edit


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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:54 pm 
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Not super up on Tau but the theme of this one is battlesuit, battlesuit, battlesuit?

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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:13 pm 
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There is surely Battlesuit and some Battlesuit , and with a strong center around Hazard XV9s that are not on any other list as of yet. Now, the Vior’la list features all the big Battlesuits , here you’ll find a fewer number mixed with smaller suits, as a lot of T’au formations are described in the fluff.

I did put in a Heavy suit formation of XV107s much because it was on Ke’lshan they where first made, as well as XV109s and the big KX139. But I tried keeping a stronger focus on smaller suits , drones and let Hammerheads be features alongside as well.

On Third sphere you have Hammerheads and no Heavy suits, on Vior’la you have lots of heavy suits and no Hammerheads. Here you can field a little of them both if you like. But as I said, a large focus is on the smaller suits XV9s and drones and some Ke’lshan home made heavy suits scattered around.


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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:50 pm 
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I think a list focusing on smaller suits is fine and if you can make crisis work that’s great. I do think you need to resist the urge to keep all the other units. As far as I can tell the only unit you have left out from the Third Phase list is Kroot. And who wants Kroot? Although on the surface the quantities are different, in many cases the quantities are also just better or more flexible, with lots of different combinations and upgrades possible, and several core options. IMO a list is mostly defined by its constraints not its options and when adding something you need to take something away. I know it’s hard as when you remove a unit you naturally think “but then I won’t have X capability and I NEED it”. But it genuinely does make the list better and more characterful.

The viorla suffers from this too - it’s basically third phase ++, removing weaknesses from the earlier list and only giving up the stuff nobody uses. You don’t want to make it even worse. Aim for fewer units and more rigid structure (also makes the list easier to understand). I don’t really see why you need hammerheads at all - you have all the firepower options you need. Tau might benefit from a separate “kitchen sink list” for friendly play with every unit, but for a tournament list it’s always a good idea to come up with how you want it to play, what it’s strengths should be and what its equivalent weaknesses are. On the plus side you have kept the shaso constrained to suits, the viorla list just made the easy choice to put him in with fire warriors purely to make the list more powerful than third phase. IMO if there’s something wrong with crisis then fix it in third phase.

Two more specific comments: I like the mixed unit formations, these aren’t so normal for epic but that’s not a big deal, however be aware that war engines mixed with AVs doesn’t synergies as well as might be expected due to the targeting rules, but not the end of the world.

Interesting extra core formation, in terms of makeup I might have expected it to be a support formation but if there’s a style of play in mind maybe it’s appropriate?

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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:59 pm 
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Thank you for the input and feedback. I hope it doesn’t come across as a “kitchen sink” field all list, that isn’t really the idea at all. If compared to the Third sphere, as you say kroot are missing and maybe no one will be much bothered by this. Other differences are ther is no Recon formation of Tetras and no pure Skyray formation. Both are formations I personally utilize a lot when playing Third sphere. Perhaps the Hammerheads could be seen as redundant, here they serve as a means to get some top notch AA and some fire power to boot.

I have found a few Fusion heads for example, synergies quite nicely with crisis suits in a two formation coordinated fire, where the XV8s (or it could be XV9s here now as well) move in close , and the fusion heads can maneuver at a bit larger distance and with a Skyray marks the target for the XV8s. All the while providing an AA bubble.

Now that said , maybe this list should be made more like Vior’la in that it should also lack Hammerheads , but as for now , I’d like to test it out to see if there might not be a place for this formation here, as I said for AA but “forcing“ you to field a mixed formation of Armour to get to it.

I have put velocity trackers on Ke’lshan XV107s , but an AA 6+ at 30cm don’t really cover ones AA needs that well, it’s more of a little AA boost. IMO you’ll likely ey need at least two Skyrays, either as an upgrade to the Firewarriors. But if you opt to only get XV9 formations as core formations only, you Then have to go get two interdiction cadres to get them out there.

But this is great, Discussions on opinions , options and ideas have started. I’m gonna test play my list for the very first time soon. I’ll make sure to post up how it turns out.

On the point of mixing WE and AV I’m well aware it’s not exactly to ones advantage, nor is a mix of inf and LV as seen in the drone formation and as an option in the recon, with pathfinders and Remoras, but that’s the idea. You gain some nice flexibility , but become more vulnerable At the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:18 am 
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The formation structures are certainly different so maybe that is enough that it still contains almost all the -units- that 3rd phase and viorla have. Probably would still be tempted to simplify the options a bit as the variety of combinations is high, can make it hard to balance and understand.

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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:50 am 
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Kyrt wrote:
The formation structures are certainly different so maybe that is enough that it still contains almost all the -units- that 3rd phase and viorla have. Probably would still be tempted to simplify the options a bit as the variety of combinations is high, can make it hard to balance and understand.


I imagine it will be simplified somewhat, but rather than doing a bunch of “replace one Crisis suit with a Riptide +50p” for example , I opted to write it as two versions of the same formation. Same with the pathfinders and hammerheads etc. It shouldn’t be terribly different from all the FW load outs on Third Sphere as well as pathfinders on Vior’la . Firewarriors have 8 FWs or you switch out for 6 FWs and 3 DevilFish, or 12 or 10FW 5 DF etc. But still , you are likely right that it will need a bit of streamlining eventually. But I want to test some of these formation versions out, to see witch ones has the right feel for the list.


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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:21 pm 
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Having got one little test game in there there’s not much to be said yet. Got two Orc Landas dropped on my head and had a pretty bad time. After some discussion with my opponent we both however agreed that the price for the Ke’lshan KX139 at 375p is a bit too hefty. I thought it better to begin too high than too low. We discussed putting it down to 300-325 somewhere , I won’t upload a new version just for that change though, but wait until possibly more adjustments are needed. I will punch it down in the linked google sheet version though.


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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:27 pm 
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Cyguns,

I think you have a good start here! You picked a compelling sept also, which is a lot of fun.

While disagree w Kyrt that Vior'la is a "3rd Sphere+" list, as the many people asking for hammerheads in the list will attest, I do agree with the sentiment that restrictions help define the goal or play style of a list. Basically, the "why" you'd take this list over another option. 3rd sphere offers a traditional tau, long range fight. Vior'la can be more durable and hit harder, but loses some of the mobility.

If I went to play a list focusing on small suits and drones, I'm thinking of getting back to increased agility. Here's a few different limitations that could narrow down units:

- scrapping pathfinders and instead use remora drones solely for mobile MLs (I'm really excited to these in a list!),
- maybe stick with the XV25 stealth instead of the traditional;
- drop riptides. I like that you're using heavy suits built by that sept, and limiting the selection based on that fluff would help trim the options.
- maybe move firewarriors into the support as well to force folks to take the suits during list building.

It's your choice at the end of the day, and I think there's place (and demand) for a list like this. Looking forward to the development!

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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:19 pm 
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Thanks for the input! Much to consider indeed. Dropping the Riptides from the list (or replace with 107’s) is a good thematic move I do agree, I think I’ll get on that right away. Moving FWs to support is also a good suggestion, when I’ve tried the list , I usually don’t end up picking them over the suits anyway, and since the Hazards play a central role in the theme of this list , that is good. Dropping pathfinders I feel needs a bit more consideration, mainly since it’s a source of Coordinated fire I feel. I’m not there yet, but an original idea for the list, was as you say agility! Nimble Hazards and drone formations that needs to get up close and personal , with coordinated fire being a powerful tool to utilize. But I’ve tried to be careful in the pricing and formation unlock here initially, to avoid a spam fest of drone formations. So in conclusion, moving the FWs to support is a good one, I’ll look to do that I think. Dropping the PFs I feel would require an alternative source for coordinated fire apart from the suits. Could an option be , to follow up on my quite unusual heavy unit mix in the formation (it’s in part a bit of a style for this list) and Drop the FW formation AND the PF formation to make a 250p, 4 FWs, 2 PFs and 3 DF formation at base?

I don’t know, but good points , and I’m glad you like the overall feel of the list. I will get to work on it, kill some darlings and start tightening it up.


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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:57 pm 
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Cyguns wrote:
Drop the FW formation AND the PF formation to make a 250p, 4 FWs, 2 PFs and 3 DF formation at base?.


I like this idea. Its keeps the units in the game, but creates a unique way to access them while also restricting infantry in a list focusing on tanks and suits.

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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:12 pm 
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OK! I've made some changes, most of the ones suggested, switched out the Riptide for a XV107, Moved the Firewarriors to support.

I didn't removed the old loadouts for now, (I wanna try the stuff out) but rather added the FW PF mixed formation as a base loadout.

I changed up the Stealth formation, removing the 6 XV15s for 4 XV25 with a shas'el for the same cost (225p)

Also perhaps the biggest change, you now unlock 3 Support formations for every Core formation as on the ThirdSphere.
Gonna try these changes out and see what I can find.

If anyone tries this list out, I'd be very glad to hear what you learn in doing so.

Also the price for the Supremacy has now been taken down to 325p



Now, I have been toying with an idea regarding Orcas.
The swift wing is said to have modified Orcas to help carry Hazards into battle, and the skilled pilots are said to maneuver it much like a skimmer once on the battlefield.

As previously discussed, this list needs to be agile and fast, in order to get your suits into range to do their damage.
Sure , it's T'au. shooty shooty, you will have some long-range options too. This is intended. The Ke'lshan planet has seen many different Alien invasions, that has forced them to arm up for different kinds of battle. But by and large, you will need to get those fragile formations of Hazards in close before braking

So I've toyed with the idea of an "Swift wing Orca" bought as an upgrade for a Hazard formation at 100-125p
It will be much like a regular Orca, but Once it has made an Approach move, it will not be allowed to fly out, but will have a speed of 35cm , and be tied to the formation as it's WE transport. (naturally not allowed to carry any units outside it's formation). It would be quite a unique piece , as a WE transport with speed, you could ofc opt to set it up during regular deployment with it\s formation, or, keep it in reserve (together with the Hazards) for your one Approach move.


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 Post subject: Re: T’au Ke’lshan Planetary Force
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:33 pm 
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Here´s an Updated version of my crude Build calculator, again, Make a copy of this document once opened in your google sheets, and build away.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


Update bug fix:

After the updates I’ve been finding bugs in the calculator, but all of them should be fixed now. If you’ve copied the above link before today (24th) , simply do it again now and everything should work.


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