Graf_Spee wrote:
mhmm.. so devastation class cruiser is 150pts for black legion but should go up to 200pts in the ts list. I understand the issue with the drop, but i can take a black legion retinue with 4 cult marines of thousand sons and demonic pact for 450pts. giving it a base unit count of 12(!) with the abilty of summoning demons and none of the other impairing rubrics have. and then of course all the hyper agressive we's that bl has but ts lack. this seems at odds to me. but let's discuss.
thanks for the response. There is no right or wrong about that point. And most probably it is something to discuss in gerneral.
Graf_Spee wrote:
also what i don't quite get is how you use the expendable rule for demons here. is there a difference to other chaos list or why do I read several posts as demons being as expendable as ork grots? they are not. lost demon do count for combat resolution. whereas grots do not. or do i get something wrong?
No you are quite right about that point. Since it is not the expendable rule but the sentence after that, that makes a grot to a grot
„Formations that include at least one Ork unit don’t count Grot units that are lost in an assault when working out who has won the combat.“
Roboshadow wrote:
Hi Ole
yea just spoke to pfe about the game realizing that we both made a mistake knights game, daemon do count for engagement . PFE said that Geep had a copy of the army list for his their game as well. Please forgive us for we use on average 8+ different list in a month roughly as a group.
Don’t worry about it.
Roboshadow wrote:
want to chat about the suggested changes:
Strategy rating drops to 4.
space crafts going up by 50pts
I fine with the strategy rating being drop but if you going to do that leave the space ships points as it is, this bring it in line with the other chaos list (mainly the Black legion, EC) as indicate by graf_spee.
As I wrote above the space ship might be a bit over the top, but lets see.
Roboshadow wrote:
the New rubic rule:
I'm happy with the new rule, as to me it's sound like a simple necron rule which is fine i know that works.
Great you like it. Then so should other.
Roboshadow wrote:
rubic fellowship:
I'm happy to have 300pts all this means is that Tk son will have lower activation count which will put them at a disadvantage at tournaments where activation counts reign supreme here in Australia. since the list went to cancon16 and if memory serve me, it had about 8 to 9 activation.
You took the list to cancon16? You didn’t tell me about it. How did the crowed respond? Like: Oh look the total cheese List?
It is not much about activation but far more about daemons.
You still can but in a list like:
Incompertus, 2840 POINTS (+150 Points upgrade)
Thousand Sons (6.1.2)
==================================================
RUBRIC FELLOWSHIP [355]
Sorcerer, 6 Thousand Sons Marines units., Daemonic Pact, Icon Bearer, 3 Rhino
RUBRIC FELLOWSHIP [355]
Sorcerer, 6 Thousand Sons Marines units., Daemonic Pact, Icon Bearer, 3 Rhino
RUBRIC FELLOWSHIP [325]
Sorcerer, 6 Thousand Sons Marines units., Icon Bearer, Daemonic Pact
NEOPHYTE CLASS [175]
One Sorcerer, 9 Neophyte units
THOUSAND SONS ARMOR [225]
3 Predator, Land Raider
SILVER TOWER COMPANY [325]
4 Silver Tower
THOUSAND SONS WARCOVEN [450]
Sorcerer, 4 Thousand Sons Terminator, Daemonic Pact, Icon Bearer, Champion of Tzeentch
GREATER SPIRES OF TZEENTCH [200]
Greater Spire of Tzeentch
DOOMWING FIGHTERS [150]
3 Doomwing Fighters
FIRELORD BOMBERS [250]
2 Firelord Bombers
THOUSAND SONS DAEMON POOL [30]
2 Lesser Daemons (Horror, Screamer, Flamer and Daemonic Beast units)
Roboshadow wrote:
warcoven:
I'm fine this change as well, this makes it like UK list, same the rubic fellow on activation.
Yeah I guess there is no more to write about the terminators.
Roboshadow wrote:
Ahrimanns chosen:
interesting idea, will have better think about this one.
Yeah me to. Lets see If me miss them.
Geep wrote:
Quote:
mhmm.. so devastation class cruiser is 150pts for black legion but should go up to 200pts in the ts list. I understand the issue with the drop, but i can take a black legion retinue with 4 cult marines of thousand sons and demonic pact for 450pts. giving it a base unit count of 12(!) with the abilty of summoning demons and none of the other impairing rubrics have. and then of course all the hyper agressive we's that bl has but ts lack. this seems at odds to me. but let's discuss.
I question why the Devastation is only 150pts in the Black Legion List- or any Chaos list- when it is clearly so much better than every other Spaceship. Regardless, there's a big difference in the units they can drop- Black Legion can get a lot of Fearless cult marines, but they're always attached to a relative weak point- the generic Chaos Marines. Also, as you point out, that's 12 bases of models to have 4 ultra-tough Fearless models- Only one such formation can drop from a Devastation. In the TS list I can drop 18 bases from the Dev, as 3 units, and every single stand is hard as a rock.
Dropping 18units is now:
RUBRIC FELLOWSHIP [380]
Sorcerer, 6 Thousand Sons Marines units., Daemonic Pact, Icon Bearer, 6 Dreadclaw
RUBRIC FELLOWSHIP [380]
Sorcerer, 6 Thousand Sons Marines units., Daemonic Pact, Icon Bearer, 6 Dreadclaw
RUBRIC FELLOWSHIP [380]
Sorcerer, 6 Thousand Sons Marines units., Icon Bearer, Daemonic Pact, 6 Dreadclaw
DEVASTATION CLASS CRUISER [200]
THOUSAND SONS DAEMON POOL [90]
6 Lesser Daemons (Horror, Screamer, Flamer and Daemonic Beast units)
1430points. That is all eggs in one basket, is it not? And they are slow after the drop. And most probably have trouble against Space Marines, Eldar, Necrons, most Orcs….
In this example it does not really matter if the space ship is 150 or 200. So we might leave it to 150, don’t you think?
Geep wrote:
Quote:
That changes should pull the teeth quite a lot.
That may be pulling the teeth a little too much, but I guess it should still be playtested to see. I do kind of like Ahriman's Chosen, as although they are extremely powerful they do add some variation to a list that's otherwise quite repetitive (a problem with all special focus lists).
For the Strat rating, a 5 isn't unreasonable given that they're space marines. I don't really get why strat ratings are what they are (eg. Eldar are rarely defensive, especially Biel Tan), but it's quite solidly set for most races.
Yepp but they are on the darker side of space marines. One point people have with this list is, it is very strong in theory hammer. But when you start putting a gang together you struggle with activation, combined arms and the stuff you like so much in list building. So leaving it to 4 is mainly to reason the theory hammer guys.
PFE200 wrote:
I have another game tomorrow night, I wont be testing the above changes, yet..Since I want to see how the list goes, when the daemons get used right and I gather my next opponent will maximizes his strengths...
1) Using cross fire
2) His scouts
3) Long range shooting and shooting in general(Over watch)
4) Activation count...14 all up and 13 of those on the table..I have 7 on table if I teleport turn 1..
5) His speed..
So should be a interesting fight.....
Good Idea. As allways looking forward to read it and see how it goes.
I played a game last week that I recorded. Might get it in the internet in the next couple of days. I have a game next monday that I will record against orcs in wiche I will take the old drop list for a spin.
Leave your comments
Cheers
Ole
it always nice to read someone else report..