28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! |
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netepic
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!!  Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:14 pm |
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Hi,
I love the 40k models, I love the 40k background, I hate the 3rd Ed 40k rules with a vengence  , (please note this is my own humble opinion and I totally respect everyone elses opinion. Please do not flame me if you disagree though constructive arguments or extreme violence are regarded as ok  ).
I love the VOID rules, and think it is a rocking game, but wish to be able to use my 40k minis. V40k is a great compromise, but I cannot host it on the EPICentre :s, due to legal reasons. What I need is a rules system which is sophisticated like 2nd Ed 40k and VOID, whilst retaining the flavour of the 40k universe and allowing me to use the models (and of course other cool 28 mm models like VOID). I am quite happy to work on a rules system, but with all the tasks I have at the mo on the websites and projects I am working on (the EPICentre has been chosen to host the VOID version of the Black Crusade, a world-wide VOID tournament, and I have loads of coding to do for that) it is unrealistic that I could finish it.
Any volunteers to help?!? Please.....?
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:43 am |
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netepic
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:08 pm |
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I suggest we go the whole hog and set up a mailing list for it, get an initial outline of what we all hope to gain from it and then work to develop it .
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netepic
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:11 pm |
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First... we need a name though.
How about 'Dawn of Darkness' kinda gothic, leaves it open for some horrific background.
I was thinking perhaps rather than the current black and white storylines GW likes to do, the enemies would be cults of mutants, kind of going back to the roots of 40k, but in a different game universe. So very dark.
I also think the undead should play a part - as in Hordes of Evil (see the Incoming! articles page on the EPICentre.
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Jimbo
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:13 pm |
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| Quote (Mojarn Piett @ 16 2003 April,10:43) | | Also, there's one mountain to which my dream castles about skirmish ruleset always crash: the point system. I have no idea whatsoever how to make one. ? |
then don't have one...
within any rules set the points system is the least important aspect...
if you can get the rules system sorted, the points system is the easy bit!
I won't do a Jervis and talk about why I think points systems are a waste of time and how you should play scenario based games...
as for rule sets
I know Tom likes detail, what about using Inquisitor or Stargrunt II?_________________ Jimbo
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netepic
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:20 pm |
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I agree, points are easy, just need a basic engine to start it on. What do people think of the name? Good or bad?
I have not had much experience of Inquisitor but the scale seems a tad too in depth, I think 2nd Ed 40k and VOID had the correct number of models on the table. I will see if I can't have a gander at the Star Grunt rules.
And yes, detail is a must, but not too much that it obscures the gameplay and bogs it down.
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Jimbo
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:41 pm |
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| Quote (netepic @ 16 2003 April,22:20) | | And yes, detail is a must, but not too much that it obscures the gameplay and bogs it down. |
detail is one of those "big" issues for me (it is probably why I like the absract Epic40K and dislike the detailed SM/TL).
for me detail in a game is less important than how the game plays
I like Full Thrust for example (especially my Star Trek version) as it is quick and fast and you feel like you are a starship captain...
So I guess you won't like my skirmish rules (see this article from my website as they are way simple - but they work!!!
 _________________ Jimbo
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primarch
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 12:30 am |
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Hi!
To be honest, I game almost exclusively in 6mm scale. I dumped 40k, back in the rogue trader days (I thought is wasn't that good then either), so my motivation for skirmish rules in larger scale minis is almost zero. The only 28mm game I ever bought and really played was warzone and may do so again when the newer edition comes out.
As for detail vs. no detail, the funny thing is it depends on what I play. For example in WWII 6mm I much prefer spearhead (less detail) than command decision (too much detail IMO). This is true as well for skirmish games. In epic, though, the more detail the better. I think its because of what I want out of the system. If a want a more realistic streamlined game I wont use a GW game, I'll play something else (DSII, Heresy, etc), but when I play epic I want the full detail of the 40k universe at every step, thus, lots of glorious detail.
I guess you can bet that on this subject the opinions are as varied as the people themelves, as it should be.
Primarch
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netepic
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 9:34 am |
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Actually those rules look pretty cool , would be worth a demo game some time, if I get the time I will turn it into a report for the EZine and email you a copy.
Something like that, but with a bit more detail would be pretty ideal. A stat line is a must, so we can have varying army lists, but I loved the action system, in a full game, squads might have to have simular levels of action points to make it easier to manage.
I will give it some thought, but people please fling ideas around  .
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 9:35 am |
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>Netepic wrote: I suggest we go the whole hog and set up a mailing list for it, get an initial >outline of what we all hope to gain from it and then work to develop it.
Fine with me. Will you set it up as usual?
> Netepic wrote: First... we need a name though.
> How about 'Dawn of Darkness' kinda gothic, leaves it open for some horrific background.
Why not, although I think the system should be generic enough to allow any background. That is actually one of my secret derams: one game, multiple uses.
>Jimbo wrote: then don't have one...
>within any rules set the points system is the least important aspect...
>if you can get the rules system sorted, the points system is the easy bit!
Yes and no. I like point systems because I am too lazy to make up a scenario. OTOH there obviously is no much use for a point system without a game...
>Primarch wrote: The only 28mm game I ever bought and really played was warzone and may do >so again when the newer edition comes out.
I have both editions of Warzone and am waiting for the newest edition. However, I confess I like the more high-tech background of the Mutant Chronicles and the 1st edition to the 2nd, although the 2nd edition in itself is a better game then the 1st.
So I guess you wouldn't mind if I manage to write a skirmish system out of Heresy in some distant future? 
To get the ball rolling: first thing is the scale: squad or individual level? To make the terminology clear: SGII and the current 40k (to a slightly lesser degree) are squad level games while Warzone is individual game. Personally I like the way of moving by a squad and targeting by a squad while allowing individual shots.
Then there's the matter of actions, activations and such. Let's get this going!
_________________
I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.
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netepic
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 11:55 am |
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Hi,
Will post more after lunch, the yahoo group has been created.
Check out the link .
Tom.
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 12:25 pm |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
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Location: Singapore
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Cool, you just got a second member of the group. This sounds interesting and I would like to be involved, although I dont know how much time I will get.
My previous experience of this kind of thing is on two levels. I put together an expanded set of rules based on the old Advanced Space Crusade idea, which I call ASCII - ahhh, geeky humour! It includes a little more detail, vehicles and such. Quite cool, but now needs a load of playtesting.
I am also working on a sci-fi sub game. There is a web site, with zero content:
Depth Charged
I really should get down and upload something here soon. Anyway, I like the idea of reasonable detail. I want to know what is going on to tell the story. I also like the idea of squad based gaming, with individual actions and detail - a bit like 40K used to be (in Rogue Trader days).
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Jimbo
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 12:44 pm |
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 17 2003 April,12:25) | I am also working on a sci-fi sub game. There is a web site, with zero content:
Depth Charged |
great minds think alike
Krazy Ivan
or is it fools seldom differ...
I actually have a full set of rules (somewhere) I might just post them at some point.
I did in fact demo the game quite a few times and used a range of Dragon models - it worked quite well._________________ Jimbo
Felix's Gaming Pages
Felix's Gaming Pages Blog
Almost Always Right...
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 1:34 pm |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
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Location: Singapore
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I have the basic ideas together. The trouble is, I got hold of Harpoon for a little inspiration (which I cant fit into Depth Charged as it is a completely different system) and now I am getting all enthusiastic about that too!
Let me know your rules when they are together. Cheers.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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netepic
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Post subject: 28mm Futuristic Skirmish Rules Designers Wanted!!! Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:26 pm |
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First thing we need to agree on is the type of army lists we would like to see.
I would be keen to keep game sizes quite small at the beginning with more emphasis on individual actions, say 20 - 40 models a side in a 1000-1500 point force.
It would also be cool to have nations in it, so even though it is set in the future, the world has not become one single entity, the Brits, Americans, French, etc are all out there. Basically it would be nice to have the national boundaries of today in the future with updated equipment and forces (a bit like Doctor Who did it, but much darker).
The main enemy as I see it would be the enemy within, cults of people who worship demons, summon the dead, and alien races who try to infiltrate from outside. Perhaps have human kind evolving in a kind of x-men way, I am not sure. These are just some ideas, what do you guys think?
I am also very keen on an action point system, so rather than an attacks characteristic, have an actions characteristic
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Also, there's one mountain to which my dream castles about skirmish ruleset always crash: the point system. I have no idea whatsoever how to make one.