Skimmers and jump packs are both able to ignore terrain while moving. How are they affected by enemy or friendly models?

Does models count as part of the terrain in the “ignore terrain during movement” effect, which is the only rule term I can find for jump packs and skimmers?

I would say that active models would not count as Terrain, and thus could not be ignored. A strict reading of the rules seems - to me - to support that, as if it were intended then it would say that. But it does not say that.

That said, I'd guess that most players would allow Jump and/or Skimmer to ignore / move over other models. Probably much like moving over terrain that they cannot land in. The best thing would be to discuss this with the people you play with and come to a consensus there.

Barring that, I'd tend to allow it, but restrict it to being able to move over/past any model that cannot pin the moving model in CC. For example, a Skimmer could not move over another Skimmer, but it could move over a non-Skimmer Vehicle.

If the 'Zone of Control' rules are in play they could complicate (or simplify) the issue a bit more. See page 23 of the Core Rules for details on that.

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Net Epic Coordinator

Waaaay Back in SM1 ... Skimmers and Jump Packs only had a max altitude of 8 cm ... which allowed them to cross any terrain of 8 cm or less in height.

And you could not end your move in terrain that would be considered impassible by Infantry. As the Jump Packs bounded from location to location and did not really "fly" per se ... IIRC ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Thanks for the answers. I have looked through the rules and the skimmers and jump pack shares alot of rules (CC fliers on low altitude, etc.). AA is allowed to shoot at skimmers as fliers where they are only allowed to shoot at jump troops when they jump out of a low altitude aircraft or deepstrike. This leads me to believe that skimmers move at a higher altitude than jump troops.

But looking at the description of the jump pack it says:



Skimmers says:



So the "fluff" for each is different. The both "ignore terrain during movement" but the fluff for jump packs mention jumping over buildings and enemy troops. Based on the text I would believe that both are able to jump/hover over buildings. Skimmers can hover up to 30 cm (based on pop up) which is more than a jump pack and based on that I would think they can skim over everything jump packs can jump over? Also skimmers are AA targets which enforces my belief that they fly higher than the jump troops jump.

Kind regards

I've been Epicing since '90 ... GW "fluff" is like Orwellian "New Speak" ... it changes along with who the bosses are ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

I don't see any portion of the quoted texts as "fluff". They are descriptions of how the abilities function in the game. I look at it this way.

Jump equipped troops, when using that ability, move upwards quite a ways in a near-vertical arc in the intended direction of travel. After reaching their apex, they descend in a "controlled fall" or "propelled fall" so as to end their move at the intended point.

Skimmers hover a short distance (probably about 1cm) above the ground and maintain that short distance over whatever terrain feature they are traversing, except when preparing to pass over a suddenly taller barrier or when making a Pop-Up attack. A Skimmer cannot end it's move above a building or other terrain feature that a model of it's type (Terrain Access) cannot enter.

Yes, the description of Pop-Up says that when doing so, the model may target as if up to 30cm above it's ground position, but that is the key. This is a special action, therefore the Skimmer cannot be allowed to be 30cm above the tabletop at all times, as if that were allowed then Pop-Up would not be a special action - it would be the normal point of attack. Since it is a special attack, the normal altitude for a Skimmer must be lower.

As to the being AA legitimate targets, I see that as being not so much about altitude as about behavior. The movement of a Skimmer would be more smooth, fluid, and mostly horizontal - like a Flyer. The movement of a Jump model is jerky, erratic, and mostly vertical - unlike a Flyer - except when only making the controlled descent of Deep Strike or disembarking from a Flyer/Floater (still mostly vertical, but then just in a single direction that turn).

That said, I agree that Skimmers can/should be able to pass above Buildings and other Structures. They just could not end their movement over them.

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Net Epic Coordinator

Magnus I agee with what you have said....but I am still at a loss as to whether skimmers are allowed to move over enemy troops?

I will discuss it with my group, but to me (and 40k when I played that) skimmers have no problem skimming over troops. I just bugs me that it is not mentioned anywere in the rules -to me it seems an omission rather than an attempt at disallowing skimmer to pass over troops.

If skimmers can skim above buildings, forests, rivers etc. should they not with the same ease skim over troops?

It makes no sense (to me) that land speeders, jet bikes etc. can not move over enemy/friendly troops during movement (not allowed to land on them, naturally).

So I am really looking for a yes/no from the rules regarding skimmers and think it should be included in the FAQ.

Scream/primarch you have any opinions on this? (-how is it played in france? Saw some pics from last year with skimmers on buildings so I have a feeling they fly high in france )

Ronnie

Hi,

Skimmer movement over ennemy troops is a question that was asked by a french Tau player last year for the 2015 tournament.

After reading/re-reading/merging infos, it resulted that was covered by:

- skimmer ability
- pinning class
- Zone of control

We concluded that a skimmer can move over any non skimmer enemy ground troups. It can also move over an enemy skimmer with a smaller pinning class: a Devilfish (PC3) can move over a Motojet (PC2) but a Motojet can not move over a Devilfish.

Makes sense to me. Also just read that in the tournament pack you sent out.

Thanks for pitching in !

That makes sense.

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Net Epic Coordinator

Hi!

I agree with Scream's answers.

It is what I do when I play using skimmers.

Primarch

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Primarch


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That makes sense ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."