Remember that they would be on overwatch so whatever is hitting them would most likely be blast markered first (and potentially broken).
Also, spam them and watch the opponent cry. Why would a player not take 3 or even 6 of these and just overwhelm an opponent before they can all be taken out.
Of course they are relatively weak but they force an opponent to take them out first and that frees the rest of the Squat army to move into position or rain death with other outstanding barrage weapons.

This was written for the NetEA list but it should be noted here as well:
And the EpicUK list has twice as many BP's as the NetEA proposed version...

I'll leave it there.

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Not entirely sure how 60cms of range is the same as "hit anything on the board" but I can see why you might agree with onyx other point about 6bp. Just having this unit garrisoned on Overwatch would mean they could do some damage before being taken out. I'd agree they are an auto include.

Not much point debating now though it's approved. Just find a way to kill them, I know I'd be looking at counter garrison options because you know exactly where these guys will deploy each game.

Would have been nice to see a transport option added to the thunderfires but I can see why they increased the unit size/points to prevent spam so good on them for that.

Interesting to see how many(if any) of these changes will be adopted to the Aus version of squats being developed now.

With mole mortars. Firstly, squats are only strategy rating 2 so most armies can cover the choice garrison terrain with their own scouts. Secondly, they're in the support section so you have to give up on thunderfires, overlords, bikes or gyros to get them so you lose either aa, your most mobile units, or great all rounders in overlords to fit them in. Also, if you want to spam mole mortars fine. But it's gonna be pretty funny when you come up against siege masters, necrons, drop pods, amtl, etc etc

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I actually found they stopped using them as forward garrison overwatch formations as with good positioning of objectives and counter garrisons (marine scouts, rough riders even rangers) when assaults went in the mole mortars were doing more damage to themselves if they used their overwatch. As they only had barrage weapons they had to cover as many of the opponents units as possible so almost always had to cover some of their own units, usually more when infiltrators were used which allowed me to not even bother having to place a BM myself.

This led to other units being used as overwatch formation to try to cover the mortars when garrisoned forward which then left 2 formations in vulnerable positions and allowed the Warhound, infiltrator assault 1-2 .

I had similar concerns myself early on but with learning new tactics to counter them I now have less concerns over them, some players will have problems with them in their early games but should learn quickly about the mortars strengths but this usually happens with any new lists and units.

The UK version does have rhino transports for the thunderfires or do you mean allow other options for them.

That certainly occured to me but sadly not evey race/army can get into base contact with the garrisoned mortars. 200pts is way too cheap for 6BP dirupt. These types of formations are game changing/breaking and should be avoided. There's a reason the NetEA list reduced the BP and it's still valid (and it is still overpowered).

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Huh? So what if not every list/army can get into contact with the garrisoned mortars. Logically that should lead to a development in tactics on how to deal with them. If everything in the squat list is weak, whats the point in playing the squat list?

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Resident Squat Army Fanatic

200pts for 3BP disrupt with an effective 60cm range is rubbish not overpowered. 200pts for 6BP disrupt with an effective 60cm range is a good option, but more in a defensive role than the odd attacking options that are being discussed, which frankly is just asking to give me a 400pt and 2 activation advantage before the game even begins.

Very interesting discussion. From my testing I hit a similar problem to dptdexys. That was if you committed Mole Mortars forward you either needed to look at protecting them with other formations or accept that they could be wiped out before they could activate.

Rather than going with a full formation of 6 MM I prefer to take 4 MM & 2 Robots so that I had a bit of protection and a better save for my front two units.

I did try in one game with 4 formations of 6 MM, 2 on Garrison and 2 behind so that I was guaranteed to get two shots off. I lost the roll-off and preceded to have two formations on one flank broken. The other two MM formations shot breaking a formation of Hydras and placing BM on a mounted Mechanised Company. The remaining two formations were left alone for most of the rest of the turn. However, one was shot at near the end of the turn losing a central model which meant they had to move to regain coherency in the next turn.

My feeling is that I would rather spend 800pts elsewhere than on trying to get this tactic to work.

Final point, most of my games tend to have the objectives placed in such a way that they are as far from cover as possible this leaves at least part of the formations exposed after they have shot.

Always interested in hearing opinions and I think this is a good preparation for the NetEA push.

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These things are like Deathstrikes (only obviously much better vs large formations).
Of course, Deathstrikes are an 0-1 choice though...
Cheap, amazing if they get to do what you want them to do and they will force an opponent to waste far more points to neutralise them than they cost.
There is absolutely no reason not to take at least 2 of the Mole Mortar formations and win either way. If the opponent got to the Mortars he just bought himself some Macro Weapon death from the Doomsday Cannons or the silly amount of air balloon mounted battle cannons (which really should be fixed left and fixed right arcs to make them balanced and reflect the actual model).

I think you are completely wrong there yme-loc and you've missed out all the other parts of the formation that are outstanding - garrisoned infantry in cover on overwatch.
Please read the above information on the Disrupt ability on troops and you might understand the big picture with regard to this unit.
Some people just don't understand what an amazing ability Disrupt really is.

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Please stick to what is actually commented on and it's best not to try and put words into other peoples mouths.
There are a small number of units in the Squat list that, if directly ported over from previous versions of the game, are overpowered.
Note I say a small number not everything in the squat list.

Hopefully, you'll get to play some Epic Armageddon games soon (you did mention that you new to EA) and then you can comment from experience.
I've played dozens of games against Squats and I've played many dozens of games using Disrupt artillery. That doesn't make me right but it does mean I understand the situation.

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Even 6BP is still only hitting on 5s against vehicles and troops in cover

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While it is true that I am fairly new to the game I was sticking to what is being commented on. Over many threads now you have been talking about how broken Mole Mortars are when they have disrupt. In one of those threads you even made the comment that squats used to have everything and the kitchen sink and you said that it was notoriously hard to balance and that it was not fun to play against. Then you went on to say that squat players will just have to realize that the squats will have to be toned down from previous incarnations if they ever hope to see approval.

So I asked you what is the point of playing squats if everything is so weak? Your opinion on Mole Mortars being just one in a long line of units you think needs toning down. I think that is pretty on topic here as my comment is about mole mortars as well.

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Ignoring all other comments... because I'm just so happy to see the Squats as an official list. Thank you for all the time and effort to bring this out.


I am sad that in a 3000pt game you can only have 2 land trains. I love trains.

Also, a minor thing, I appreciate the overlord is already good - but the support craft rule without void shields... that brings a joyful tear to the eye of every shadow sword commissar. That'll be a tense turn one strategy roll.


P.S. Is anyone else thinking how much fun it would be to take two Cyclopses... Cyclopsi... what's the plural of Cyclops?