Light vehicles can definitely use Wraithgates. They're very, very useful for letting Hornet formations get the first strike, combined with their native speed and range.



I've argued against having an upgrade cost for Fire Prisms every time it's been raised (they have a very situational advantage over Falcons, but are strictly worse in almost all cases).

As an alternative: what about changing the weapon stats to AT3+/AP3+ and making it a free choice between Falcon and Fire Prism? That's much worse while doubling and firing at vehicles (typical targets for the Lance shot), but a small improvement against troops, and keeps the additional range they bring to the formation. Would that be enough for consideration as an "equivalent" option?

5 point upgrades are useless in the Eldar list: either you're upgrading a whole formation, or you're wasting up to 20 points. You might as well say "+25 points: Any number of Falcons in this formation may be replaced with Fire Prisms."

Fire Prisms - return them to their original stats - go on you know you want to.

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PFT100,
I have taken your suggestion and had a good hard think about what I deem needs changing in order to make the Siam Hann army more flavourful while addressing some of my concerns (which currently compel me to use Biel Tan armies as I can do everything with that list and more then with Siam Hann currently).
I reserve judgement on the Vampire Hunter as I have not used it to date.

Some thoughts on possible changes:
Improve SR to 4
Changes:
Wildrider Clan Warhost: 7 Jetbikes and Wild Rider & Counsel COST: 225pts
Extras: Replace any number of Jetbikes with and equal number of Vypers for free
Add three Jetbikes for +75pts
Add one Wildrider Chieftain character per army to Wilde Rider & Counsel unit +75pts
New Unit:
Wild Rider & Counsel INF SPEED 35cm ARMOUR 5+ CC 4+ FF 4+ Assault Weapon +1 EA MW Mounted, Skimmer, Leader, Farsight, Invulnerable Save

Remove Scout ability from Hornets

Support Troups:
Remove: Ranger Troup, War Walker Troup from army list.

Windrider Recon Host: Any six of the following units: Jetbikes, Vyper COST: 200pts
Note: all units in Wind Rider Host receive Scout
Extras: Can exchange to units for one Hornet Unit, add up to one Hornet for +50pts

Hornet Host: four Hornets COST: 200pts
Extras: Add up to two Hornets for +50 points each

These changes would improve the army’s ability to act and retain the initiative (SR4 plus more Farsight in army) first but would reduce their total activation count (no more cheap Rangers or Walkers).

I think the addition of the Windrider Recon Host and the addition of more Hornet possibilities make this far more of a Siam Hann themed list.

I know there will be some concerns around my proposed Wild Rider Clan Warhost. Step back for a minute and take a look at it from my perspective. The closest comparison of units are either Chaos Space Marine Bike Companies (the closest comparison) or Space Marine Bike Detachments. Given that both of these units have better initiative, armor and other stats, and are only missing skimmer, I think they are fair comparisons. If you run the numbers I think you can easily justify 225 for the Wild Riders given that they part of an army with lower initiative, equal to or lower activation count and have lower stats then there contemporaries in other armies. Also note how often you see Choas or Marine bikes being used… I think that tells you something as well.

Those are just some of my thoughts.

Sorry, for the Wildrider Warhost, I ment 6 Jetbikes and the Wild Rider & Counsel (so a total of 7 units in the base formation).

Sounds like it will be a intersting update, I can say now straight away though I will never use prisims at AT+3 / AP+3, but that just my preference, i feel at their current stats they are still a viable even match for a falcon. But again i don't want to dregde up old issues.
Look forward to the updated lists and seeing how this progresses.

PFE100

Thank you for considering some of my suggestions.

Regarding giving an Invulnerable Save to the Wind Riders, while I like it, I feel that it is a little more power creep then I would personally be comfortable with. I feel there would be serious push back. Can I suggest an alternative that I feel would be more flavorful and different (then the recent trend to add Fearless, Invulnerable saves or Reinforced Armor to units)? Remove Mounted from all Jetbikes and add Walker to all Vypers in the army. I would think this is more in line with Siam Hann’s expertise with jetbikes and mobile warfare. The effect, although the Jetbikes could not garrison (due to elder special rule), there new mobility (being pure Infantry) would grant them increased mobility (ability to enter terrain), the ability to take advantage of cover saves and to hit modifiers. I would be interesting and different and full of Siam Hann flavor.

I am pleased that you are considering the Wind Rider Host. Can I suggest that you limit them to 0-1 Wind Rider Host per Wild Rider Warhost. Or have them come out of the Spacecraft, Aircraft & Titan portion of the list. To avoid spamming.

I would suggest you update the Eldar Speical Rule with respect to “May not Garrison” to allow Hornets and the Wind Rider Host to garrison.

For the Wild Rider Warhost, I personally feel that they should include Farsight due to the fact that Siam Hann isn’t that different from normal Eldar craftworlds and as such the “guardian” equivalent formations of Siam Hann should have a warlock/seer accompanying them. As such, perhaps you just want to include Farsight in the Wild Rider Unit. I see the Farsight as mandatory in an Eldar army due to the ability to retain initiative and summor Avatar.

As I have mentioned before I feel that the Wild Rider Warhost is over costed relative to it’s peers (Chaos Space Marine Bike Company and Marine Bike Detachment). Given that you want to add a special ability to the unit I won’t mess with the base price. Here are some thoughts to tightent up the unit and imbed Farsight into the unit. Concept here is that each Wild Rider has the counsel of a Farseer/Warlock ridding with him. Rewrite to:

Wild Rider Clan : Seven Siam-Hann Jetbikes, one with Wild Rider character 250 points
Extras: Replace any number of Siam-Hann Jetbikes with an equal number of Siam-Hann Vypers for free.
Add three Siam-Hann Jetbikes for +75 points
Replace Wild Rider character with Wild Rider Chieftain character once per army +50 points

Forces:
Wild Rider CH Assault Weapon, EA +1 MW Leader, Farsight, Invulnerable Save
Wild Rider Chieftain CH Assault Weapon, EA +1 MW, Small Arms, +1EA Supreme Commander, Farsight, Invulnerable Save

Thoughts on changing Jefbikes and Vypers:
Forces:
Siam-Hann Jetbike INF Speed 35cm AR 5+ CC 6+ FF 4+ Skimmer
Siam-Hann Vyper LV Speed 35cm AR 4+ CC 6+ FF 5+ Scatter Laser 30cm AP5+/AT5+ Skimmer, Walker

Just some food for though.

Looking forward to the next update. Will playtest.

That's a SPLENDID idea ^^^

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That's a great idea! My Saim-Hann games have all had points where jetbikes could have really used the ability to take advantage of cover, and it's a more reasonable change to the unit than giving them an Invulnerable save.

I'm not sure that the Fire Prism change is ready to jump straight in to playtesting though, especially as it would affect all the Eldar sub-lists - it was a very quick suggestion, and hasn't had any numbers run on it so far. I think that crunching some numbers first would help to make sure those playtest games are looking at the best possible version of that change.

Changes (some) playtested: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30335&p=574615#p574615

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