Matty_C wrote:
Fliers. After looking long and hard at their move rates the current rules are clunky and don't mesh well with the rest of the game. I'm not sure the proposed changes earlier in this thread addressed this.
Here is an alternative.
Start of turn: players take turns lining their flier units up touching their table edge.
Orders are assigned as normal.
First fire = drop off transported formations.
Advance = ground attack
Charge = attack another flier formation.
When activated fliers choose altitude as normal, and can move an unlimited amount, but may only make one 90degree turn per length of movement they have.
They then shoot as per normal. Aa can fire on them as normal.
Dogfights are resolved by shooting each other while on charge orders rather than using the units cc value. Cc value is reserved for when they are actually engaged in combat, by jump pack infantry when they are flying low, if they are tyranids or whatever.
At the start of the end phase players then take turns moving the fliers off the board. If they fly off their own edge then there's no penalty. If they fly off any other edge then there is. This could be a morale roll to be available next turn, or they take a hit on a 6+ With tsm0 to represent the dangers of flying over enemy territory, or similar.
Plenty of details to flesh out, but that's the core of what I've been thinking.
Have at it!
Hi!
Several "issues".
1. How are bombers or fliers transporting ground troops protected from incoming assailants? As it stands a player with greater amount of activations can leave those vulnerable assets for the end of his activations to move with impunity, combined with unlimited move it has the potential for an overpowering effect (massive unopposed drops or bomb runs).
2. On the opposite end of the spectrum, forces with too little activations really have no advantage to any orders beyond CC. Since orders to bomb or land troops are too risky to be useful given the ease at which a player with more opposing activation can "intercept" them.
In essence it goes from "too good", to useless based solely on activations. Not good.
3. No real benefit to "flying low". Given that CAF is a "useless" stat under this paradigm for air combat (you shoot no engage in CC for air to air CC), There is no real tactical advantage to flying low to seek cover, especially when a higher flying aircraft can still target you. Since there is no increased accuracy to hit for flying low, the risk of exposing yourself to ground CC (jump pack troops, etc) far outweighs any cover (and that is mostly from ground troops).
I mentioned this on FB, and I'll repeat it here. I realize that there is a fervent desire to somehow get a working system within the limitations of the ground based orders (first, fire etc).
However, Aircraft and ground forces behave very differently. Even redefining orders for fliers doesn't go far enough, since it leaves gaps that either make fliers too good or not worth taking.
Everyone seems to know what they'd like fliers to do. Transport fliers should be able to do so, but it should be without risk (right now its easy to make it no risk or just not bring them), Interceptor types should be able to try to achieve air dominance, yet either they can't escort or effective do that job if they don't activate "after" opposing fliers. Strafing runs have no real benefit or attached risk to flying low or again need no escort making them too vulnerable or not at all (activation issue).
Most things based on the same 4 tier order system have proved to be ineffective over the years as a flier system. Not only in the realm of theory craft, but actual game play. In 18 years we've tested a lot of system based on this 4 order principal.
The only ones I have seen work are ones NOT based on such a system, but those system are not favored simply because they are not 4 order paradigm based.
I am beginning to agree with some back in the day that proposed that there be no flier system at all, and that net epic be purely a ground based force game. Leaving each gaming group to design and define fliers on there own.
Without consensus this is a distinct possibility.
Primarch
