Yes, Onyx hits the nail for my i don't want deth kannons in the list. Gargants should be going forward, hunting down opponents.

List structure will stay as it is. Supa-stompas are a really good unit and would be auto-include in any list if i made it easier to buy more of them in a list.
I don't own any Gargant models myself so i scratchbulit 2 instead. Really fun gives an original look to my army.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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Spot on Onyx. Well said!

Anything that reduces the game to mere dice rolling must be resisted, and this applies as much to removing weaknesses as it does to increasing range or hitting power, and to aircraft as well as ground units.

That is a good point and I completely agree with the death kannon being un orky as well as the additions of all the long range weaponry being bad for the game as a whole (Onyx). Seems they have been included on the load out for the mega gargant for quite a while. You think they should just be removed from the weapons options list but remain on the mega gargant? I would have no problem with that. I didn't mean to suggest that because something is in one list that every other list should have it too. I meant that ATML seem to have significant advantage in fire power, shields, activation rolls and even manouverability. Just curious how the Gargants are going to stack up. I know they have more DC and are a bit cheaper but... I guess I should get some games in before trying to find flaws.

Mordoten my concern is that with the restriction on support units you'll see a lot of lists that have a few Gargants and then maximum amount of fliers to up the activation count. This will be the whole speed freaks/Ghaz flier spam debate all over again.

I think I'm going to paint up my mega gargant and give him a go.

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Yes, that's my main concern also. The Imperial Titans are very powerful for their cost. Anecdotally (not a proper battle report, sadly) I've played a game where two Great Gargants were ripped apart by a single Warlord (which also died, thankfully).

I don't think the Gargants need any super-long-range weaponry - I'm not in favour of the Deth Kannon or anything else over 60cm. However, I would like to see some weaponry that put them on par with an equivalent-cost Imperial in a fight. I don't want to have my Gargants rolled by every AMTL list I come across.

My last game was against the titans. They lost.

Garganrs are way more durable and have an advantage in engagements (more DC gives more attack dice snd a natural +1 modifier on the result roll for being "more units" then their titan counterparts.)
The gargant support formation are also way more useful then the AMTL ones. Lootaz are more versatile than crusaders and fighta bommers are a bigger threat to ground units than thunderbolts.
I've played alot of games with the AMTL, they are actually my main army, so i have a pretty good sense of how strong they are.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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About fighta bommer spam:

I don't mind it. You can do the same in the AMTL list with thunderbolts. The big problems there is that aircrafts can't claim objectives and if you want a competetive army you need at least 5-6 formations that can do just that.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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Excellent. Glad to hear it.

I am actually in favor of a long range gun, e.g. Deth Kannon. I strongly oppose this notion of having to force players to play "orky". If an ork mek wants to build a bigger gun - which then happens to shoot further - I don't consider that unorky.

I agree that there are too many long range guns appearing in the game, but I think the orks are the least problematic race. If a Titan sustains/advances on 1+ (or 2+ with BM, although they have easy access to Leader) with a MW2+ Vulcano cannon, that is dangerous. If a gargant risks his action by trying a sustain or advance on 3+ (4+ with even a single BM), or hits on 4+ after doubling (assuming no cover), it is a completely different story. So basically, a long range gun gives everyone a chance to build a somewhat shooty gargant if they want, but if said gargant does nothing else than trying to get some use out of the increased range, it most likely will not earn its points back. Any stationary gargant that doesn't participate in engagements (due to being well behind the other units, which try to close with the enemy) wastes his most valuable potential. Still, one of the appeals of playing orks is having the options also for crazy, suboptimal builds.

While I totally sympathise with this, the issue is that E:A is suffering from power-creep across a lot of lists. While it may be 'Orky' to shoot a really BIG gun at something, it would also be 'Orky' for that BIG gun to miss the intended target completely, kill some nearby Ork formation or even explode in the ork's face . . . .

We tend not to put this kind of detail into E:A because the game is abstracted to a much higher level of detail than WH40K. E:A is also a lot more subtle and it is this subtlety that we are at risk of destroying through this 'paper' arms race and the creation of ever more potent units and lists.

While I understand where your coming from I must disagree. Different races need to be constrained in certain ways to keep their "feel" in line with the fluff. You cant have a every list excelling at everything that would just kill the diversity and make the game really suck. Each list has to excel at something and be deficient in another. My presious post about how will they stack up the ATML I didn't intend to imply that they need to get more powerful across all fronts I meant that their strengths (High DC WEs and Higher activation) need to make up for their deficiencies (range, low activation rolls, etc..) and I just think we haven't quite reached the balance.

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I haven't had time to write up the battle report from the game I played this week (I'll do that properly soon), but here's the brief summary:

I took two Great Gargants (one shooty, one choppy) against a Space Marine list. One Gargant went forward to go for objectives, and ended up taking a huge chunk out of the enemy forces before it died. The other stayed back to guard the Blitz, and couldn't be shifted by anything the opponent sent near it. We fought each other to a stalemate, and called the game - my opponent had killed 100 points more of mine that I had of his.

The army felt slow, tough, and satisfying - very well balanced against the Space Marine forces arrayed against it. (It wasn't anywhere near optimised, but the opponent also had some subpar choices to offset the usual Thunderhawk Terminator bollocks.)

I'll put up a link to the batrep once it's done, but in the mean time, I wanted to express how happy I was with the game. I think the list is coming together really well, and the extra options available to Gargants make them far easier to use effectively (I'd still like to see them come down in points a little bit).

Thanks for the info Kadeton! Looking forward to the report!

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Had an interesting game with the Big mob list a little while ago. Haven't quite gotten around to posting the report. Played a tournament 3k game and decided to give the Mega a go for fun (mostly because I was short a Gargant for the list I wanted to make), lol bad idea. It is incredibly over priced for what it can do. Your force is either going to have an extremely low activation count or your other formations are going to be bare minimum and easily destroyed/suppressed (no mob-up)

Weapon load out was very underwhelming, I know at first glance it seems impressive but half its weapons are made near useless by the necessity for it to double when activating due to the slow speed and terrible Ork initiative.
No options for Kustom upgrades - You cant add the head of mork upgrade like you can with the other gargants to help out your other formations with rallying and you cant take the boilers to make it a little faster.
Scoopagunz/Mega Cannon - near useless when doing a double action (all the Barrage points are generally hitting on 7 when counting cover and the -1 for doubling.
Grot Missiles - Almost never get a chance to use the indirect fire unless your are willing to take the considerable risk of failing the activation as well as not moving for the turn.
Kombat arms - You are almost never going to get this thing in assault range with anything (unless your opponent does it on purpose, cheap scout formations can severely hamper this thing) facing a competent opponent.
Zzap guns - I have no issue with.

I took several Supa-stompas but without the head of Gork/Mork upgrade on the Mega they could just be broken and forgotten, rallying on a 6 is hard to do!

Anyways as it stands the Mega is completely unusable in a 3k match. I got stomped 4-0 and my dice rolling was often above average. Not sure if this is suppose to be a viable option, I know the Imperator isn't the most viable either though arguably much more than the Mega.
How do you feel about dropping the points on all the Gargants. I know it has been suggested by several people and I think its defiantly warranted.

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Thanks for the intel! Yes, i think a points drop can be warranted. Was thinking 25p each but might make it 50 and see how that works out.

I will commence testing again soon since my schedule will allow for it way more. Theres a few builds i want to try that might bring about some small changes if they turn out to be OP.

And Yes, i really don't see the Mega Gargant as a viable option. Maybe as an expensive BTS and blitzguatd in a 5K game.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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Oh did have one question:

The Head of Gork/Mork Custom Upgrade. It says:
"All non-Gargant formations within 15cm of the Gargant may add the DC of the Gargantto their formation size when using the ”Mob Rule” special rule"
How does this apply to Supa-Stompas if they take the head of Gork/Mork Custom Upgrade since they aren't Gargants?

I may have a game coming up shortly and now that I have the last Gargant I wanted to give the list a go. What Gargant point value did you want me to try out the list with -25 or -50?

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