Of the lists at Into the Breach only 3 - Thousand sons, DKOK and Biel tan with Fire prisms, wouldn't be legal netEA lists. Even games against those 3 can supply useful insights as they are known quantities even if not 'official' playtest battle reports.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Thanks Steve - you got in first
I understand what you are saying here and agree that a strict observance of the procedures would reject these games. However to amplify what Steve says, I respectfully suggest to the 'list approvers' that where a given battle is between two armies that can be generated from either source, then it really *ought* to count for either group.

As for the different directions taken by different groups, I believe E-UK wanted faster list development and also disagreed with the direction being taken in certain lists (I suspect that Biel Tan might have been one of them). IMHO we ought to do what we can to heal the schism between groups and lists, if only to present a "level playing field". We can start by recognising the significant amount of common ground between the different versions of a list, rather than emphasising the few differences which are often minor anyway.

Indeed, and that is why I made my (admittedly sarcastic) remark. Jim, to have a beef with Ginger for testing the list against the "wrong" lists is well within my own definition of absurd (and rude, but hey this is the Internet!). I let my frustration with the tone of some of these recent anti-UK posts get the better of me, which is less than helpful.

I think we all agree that it would be ideal not to have the two systems, but it is done, and at the time there was a very good reason and with good results (for the UK). There is no point dwelling on it now and laying blame about the place (especially without having been there at the time). All this sniping at people from the UK (yes, we are people too) makes one weary and like Ginger says, it hardly seems productive. I don't mean to single you out, I just think we can collectively do a better job to look for the ways we CAN collaborate rather than the ways we can't.

As demonstrated by Steve, the commonality between the systems is large and so to suggest there is no use in a battle report vs any EpicUK is just untrue. In fact my list at the tournament will be a NetEA list completely by accident. Even if they are not the same, remember we are not talking about submitting this version of the list for approval, that is some way off. A test vs a EUK list might not be perfect, but is far from counter-productive, would you not agree?

Also be under no illusions that having some battle reports constitutes "data" that can be "analysed". This comes up a lot as by having a number it gives the impression that the number is somehow significant in a statistical sense. It really is nothing like the numbers required. It's just us, some guys, playing a game and giving our impressions and feelings on the list. The number of 18 exists because it is helps to have a decision making process. I know everyone likes to think they and they alone bear the empirical truth, myself included, but let's get down to planet earth. Lists are balanced on the weight of opinion, not "data".

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Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

Gents

The lists has been edited to reflect the changes in BT.

Mic

1st report AMTL vs Iyanden here.

Will try to add pictures to illustrate start and finish.

Kryt. No one said it was the wrong list. Dont be so precious.

You blokes need to be less sensitive about your euk lists.

And your argunent about 'data' is valid. It is not scientific data nor in sufficient volume to be considered statistically accurate. The point that I was making is that you cant compare oranges (euk lists) with other oranges (euk lists) and then expect to be able to tell me how an apple tastes (netea lists). Please reread my posts. Regarding the play testing. My intial question related to if the tournament was euk and if it was only playing other euk armies. If it is a netea list that happens to play other net eas and euk lists that's fine. But if its the euk iyanden list then it us completly useless to help push the development of the net ea list.

And no I see no value in two euk lists being played against eaxh other and then attempting to use that as somehow relevant to net ea list development.

Cheers
Jim

Jim, you seem to be suggesting that because the title of a list says E-UK, it is invalid for 'testing' purposes in the Net-EA environment, even if the same army can be created from the equivalent Net-EA list. Please forgive me if I have mis-stated your intention, but this seems a bit too draconian, especially in a situation as 'fuzzy' as a game like E:A where there are many other factors that have a bigger impact.

Anyhow, I am just about set for tomorrow, where I hope my dice do not desert my 'pseudo' Net:EA list in their usual fashion

Not at all mate. As Ive said we use euk lists here too. Im currently working up a euk nid lists. I love it!
... some of my closest friends are euk lists...
Im intrigued to see what your list will be once you get into the tourney. Best of luck with it.
Cheers
Jim

Well, here is the list I am using tomorrow.

Iyanden (E-UK)

650 Spirit host + Wraith Lords + Wraithseer
550 Spirit Host + Wraith Lords
375 Spirit Host
375 Spirit Host
350 Spirit Lord Troupe
350 Guardians + Wave Serpents
200 Bikes inc Vyper
150 Guardians

Practically the same as last night's game, but I have swapped a set of bikes for a second Guardian formation because the E-UK cost for Wraithlord upgrades is 25 points more expensive. This change is a mixed blessing as far as strategy goes, and also depends in part on what the opponent does.

In the Net-EA version I did strongly consider including a Gate, but decided that it was too much of a distraction in placing Objectives***. I might add that this ability to choose a very wide range of strategies and lists is one of the main reasons why I enjoy the Eldar so much. In my experience, most Eldar lists / strategies are about as powerfull as each other, unlike many other races where there tends to be an optimum strategy or build. My main 'beef' with the Eldar is the 2+ initiative which often puts great strain on my patience . . .


Anyhow, we will just have see what tomorrow brings this admittedly eccentric list - but then I am also known for slightly odd lists


*** (Basically, it would tend to influence where the opponent places their T&H objectives, which in turn could harm my intended strategy. With only the gate, I would tend to swap out the Blitz itself and keep the second Guardian formation off-table, thus protecting it from harm until it could enter as a Blitz guard. Doing this with several small formations is quite a usefull way of burning an activation each turn while building up a small force to protect / contest the Blitz - but this opens up a whole lot of other strategic possibilities for both sides . . . )

Wow, thats a really slow moving force. I will be interesting to see how it holds up!

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Battle report here

3k vs DKoK (EUK) 2-0 win to DKoK in turn 4.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Gents

Thanks everyone for the batreps so far, it is interesting seeing different builds and the way people are wiggling the list. It was picked up in early discussions but really highlighted through the batreps is the difficulties with 1:1 ratio. My initial intention with this is to really reflect the difficulties for a Iyanden commander in choosing a force given such decimated craftworld. I guess we are moving towards a change to the 1:2 ratio but I am cautious about this as it may loose the restricted feel a Iyanden commander would have. It could possibly ease the pressure of the 1:1 ratio by looking to move EOV (in particular the Storm Serpent) to the titan section of the list. While this would create some considerations when choosing from the titans section it would open up other options within the Troupe section. Just ideas at this stage and I am keen to hear what people think on the 1:1 ratio and the way forward???

Cheers

Mic

I think you should go with the 1:2 ratio to make the list more fun and playable.

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

I understand the reason to single out the storm serpent, but perhaps the solution can be more generic. IMO there is a big difference between an infantry formation and an armour formation when it comes to the number of living eldar. You could explore options around that (like 1 wraith FM unlocks 1 living FM or two support FMs.)

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Kyrt's trade list

I'm for dropping the 1:1 ratio and replace it with a 1:2.
Not a big fan of making the storm serpent a "titan"

/Uven