uvenlord wrote:
I still dont get it.
What opponent with an inspiring character are we talking about that could outnumber the Knights 2:!?
Are you afraid of Imperial guards in close combat? ...
Sure I can see that the best way to get rid of knights might be to break them in combat and then hunt them down while they flee. But if that takes a unit or two that costs more points so what?
Ok, just my two cents here...first off; I'm a Knight purist. That means I take Knights, just knights, and only knights. I'm not in the slightest bit interested in supporting fleshy troops, rough riders, little howitzers, and the other cheap rubbish like that, that have been in the lists previous (and current) iterations.
That means when I take my knights out to play, I take big stompy suits, and nothing else. (except t-bolts- I need SOME AA!) So, in order to keep my activations up, my knights are always 3 strong formations. I couldn't care less if they are more powerful in larger units; If I take units of knights anything larger then the basic 3, I'll only have about 6 activations; far too little for any real competitive play. (Least as far as the UK tournie scene goes!) As it is I generally manage 10 activations. (2 pala, 2 err, 1 lanc, 1 cas, 1 crus, 1 AAward, 2 t-bolts)
The players in my epic gaming group, indeed the UK epic scene it seems (including myself, when not playing knights) are all about the air assaults. My knight army suffers terribly from them, as I still believe that this list has no real AA defense worth a damn.
To answer Uvenlords question of 'who outnumbers knights'? let me put it to you this way. 'Cause this happens to me every game, first activation, every time. Lets say i'm playing marines. (Or Orks - my regular Ork opponent does this even worse) Marine player activates his garrison speeders; they move forward, point at my knights. Doesn't matter which formation. Oh look, a BM. Retain. T-Hawk filled with ass marines and 2 chaplains. I have 3 wardens, miles away because their range is pathetic; and t-bolts which aren't on CAP yet., so no AA. It's a combat. That's 8 rolls on 3+. then 2 more MW 3+. Lets say a knight falls over. I strike back. Lets say it's on crusaders. I get 4 attacks back. It's on 5+. I get 1 hit. It bounces. CC resolution: 8-0 in his favour. That's a dead unit of expensive WE in anyone's book.
And Dave; you want to make cast/crus MORE expensive? Really? Coz it won't help the fact that i'm frequently starting up my first activation hundreds of points (and a formation) down. The other day, the marine guy combine assaulted with teleported termies too; I had lost 3 crusaders, 3 lancers, AND my baron before I even had a go! I was 850 points down from activation one! In a 3k game, let me tell you; that's crippling!
I *personally* find the list - versatile, which is good; AA cover - terrible; the baron - pricey as hell; CC values - crap; and lances of all kinds - useless! Anything that has lances is too frequently assaulted and ends up base-to-base, and what few dice I do get in CC's are usually needing a 5+ to even hit. I'm not trying to nay-say several different groups of gamers, not to mention yourself - whom I know are working hard on this list - But IMO it still has so many weaknesses its actually quite tough to use, especially if you're trying to do a pure knight army competitively. Or indeed, once your regular opponents work out how to horribly murder you. To say nothing of the endless crossfires my Ork guy does against my poor knights...
Meh. Just my two cents worth.
. To me the thunderbolt and the Artillery is excellent choices to give AA and to prep opponents.