film him or something?

_________________
My shifting projects

I'll stop being lazy and start taking actual notes rather than optimistically trusting in my memory.

My last game was against Steve54 here, where a Plague Tower/Coven formation managed to lose an assault against a half dead Black Legion chosen formation however...

Memory :-)) I see what you mean. I would never trust my memory with anything remotely as complicated as a game of EA.

_________________
Nitpicks Knapsack (Scratchbuilding and 3D designing and printing and painting)

V0.2 update added.



changelog:

All references to Stigmatus removed and changed to generic Cultist. This is most likely a placeholder.

Core Cultist Covens increased by 25pts and Daemonic Pact added in as standard

Plague Tower move increased by 5cm, points cost reduced by 5pts and added as a choice for a Nurgle Cultist Coven

Arch Heretic statblock added

Altar altered


Not much actual change but I've played with this many times now and am fairly happy with it.

Things to consider:

The Altar hasn't been changed yet and, although I've used it many times without complaint, there is still a general feeling it is overcosted. Not sure what to do about this, other than dropping it's cost 25/50 pts. Thoughts?

The change to Daemonic summoning, and specifically how Augmented Summoning interacts with Greater Daemons, means (for me at least) I much prefer Demagogues over Aspiring Champions and never take Daemon Princes, which seems a shame. I was pondering some way to add in augmented summoning for formations without Demagogues. May be too fiddly though.

Khorne seems to be a bit lacking; Tzeentch are almost mandatory so as to get flyers, Nurgle is the only faction that allows artillery and Slannesh have the always popular warhound equivalents . I was thinking adding in the World Eater Slaughterfiend as a transport option for Khorne Covens would be a nice flavorful addition.

Thanks!

Personally I do not mind if you would include all the different Khorne War Engines. He is the warrior god after all and there is some old models floating around...

I do not get why the Plague Tower need a movement boost. Is it really faster than IG superheavies? Perhaps a points reduction but not a movement boost, that just feels wierd... (the model looks like an old siege tower with wooden wheels, so it should move slow and steady towards the enemy)

The problem with the altar is not that it costs too much it is how it interact with the Cult. If you put the Cult in transports it will slow them down and if they move on foot they can not garrison...
Would allowing it to garrison be to powerful? Or we just leave it like it is.
50 points is to cheap unless you make it worse, like dropping the hit-points or something

I agree on the Aspiring champion thing but I usually take one Daemon Prince, it is good in combat and have a very good save so it soaks up hits if you put him/her up front.


I do not think this list needs a lot of changes it looks good already

Managed to get a game in using my Nurgle cult and the 0.2 list. I think that all changes worked very well. I used 3 Plague Towers in a 2900 pts army. My army building strategy is "coolness always whops cleverness", and PTs are so very cool

Played a thunderhawkbased SM army with the usual 2 warhounds. Draw in 4th turn. Plague towers are very robust and bolster the fickle covens nicely, but they predictably dont do much against armor or termies.

The biggest change by far is the drop of the 1 support unit per coven and adding of plague towers to covens. Makes for a much more coherent feel of the army, I think.

_________________
Nitpicks Knapsack (Scratchbuilding and 3D designing and printing and painting)

So. What is the next step? What lies beyond "experimental"?

_________________
Nitpicks Knapsack (Scratchbuilding and 3D designing and printing and painting)

More games and more reports for this list to progress now. Once I get over my current game schedule I'll be looking to get some games in myself with this list. I am also happy about the Plague Tower being a transport option now although with it eating up a support choice as well I am only considering taking 2 instead of my first list attempt with 3.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Quick spot the Daemon Knight's weapon is incorrect - disrupt & indirect fire need to go

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Good spot; will be removed. Also noticed Contagion Towers (they're not a tower, dunno why they're called a tower, especially with an actual Nurgle tower in the list as well) have a Mv of 25cm, rather than the correct 15cm. Both will be corrected for next version.

Had a game last week with this list against Kev's marines.

List was:

Coven (nurgle) 525
Demagogue, 11 x mutant
Arch Heretic
Plague Tower

Coven (slannesh) 310
Demagogue, 11 x mutant
6 x land transport
1 x technical

Coven (Tzeentch) 310
Demagogue, 11 x mutant
6 x land transport
1 x technical

Coven (Tzeentch) 310
Demagogue, 11 x mutant
6 x land transport
1 x technical

Hellfire cannon 200

Hellfire cannon 200

Silver Towers 325

Doomwings 150

Zombie Infestation 175

Questor 275



Greater daemon pool: 2 100

Lesser Daemon Pool (4+8) 105

Game ended 2-0 turn three to LatD (take and Hold, blitz) after some bad luck with two sets of Terminators (for instance, one set teleported in with 2 BMs, engaged a formation but got overwatched by a Hellfire Cannon formation, killing 2, causing them to break whilst the other formation failed to kill a Questor in BtoB).

Things I noted during play

Not only can a Greater Daemon of Nurgle (a DC4 War Engine) fit in a Plague Tower, it only takes up 2 slots. I ended up rolling 10 for summoning turn one for the Nurgle Coven, summoned a Great Unclean One and 2 plague bearers and transported them in the Plague Tower along with the mutants and Demagogue. The Plague Bearers didn't even disapear thanks to the Daemonic Focus of Greater Daemons now.Not sure if they should take up more space.

LatD are historically Strat. rating 2; same as Imperial Guard. This seems a bit too good for what should be a disorganised rabble. I'd propose dropping it to 1 with no other changes.

Not sure how transporting a greater daemon in the tower would break the game and if you look at some of the 28mm miniatures a greater daemon and a dreadnought have the same size... To me the extra DC in daemons and the avatar isn't all about size.

Dropping the strategy rating might feel right but having the lowest rating of all armies is a disadvantage. Does this army need this without any tradeoff?

Played a game against Marines tonight. I took:

Coven - Plague Tower
Plague Tower
Coven
Hell Cannons
Hell Cannons
Coven + Technical
Subjugator
Subjugator
Coven - Land Transports & Technical
Doomwings
Doomwings
Zombies
Lesser Deamons - 8

The game lasted 3 turns and the marines had dreadful luck with saves and rallying, one Warhound failed to rally twice and a second failed once. LatD won 2-0 with Blitz & TnH.

It was an enjoyable game from my point of view playing with two Plague Towers and I might even try to fit in a third. Technicals placed BM's but nothing more. Hellfire Cannons were left alone by the marines and ended up causing mayhem with the best shooting they have ever done for me.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Good to hear the list is still being developed



There are two sizes and versions of Greater Demons (and the Avatar) in the 40k background and rules though.

The old epic Greater Demon were giants, 3-4 times the size of the standard 40k versions.

Forge World produce models that fit the size of the old epic ones and that are appropriate for the 3-4DC WEs the Epic Armageddon rules has them as (a smaller Greater Demon would be much less powerful and probably just an AV and it isn't present is the epic lists). These 'greater greater demons ' have much more powerful rules in 40k. See the below picture for a size comparison.

The smaller Greater Demons are similar sized to dreadnoughts and could probably be transported fine. The larger versions that the EpicA versions use however would be much too big to fit. I definitely think the Plague Tower should loose the ability to transport the GUO.



Edited to add: I since found a size comparion of the 40k and Forge World EpicA version GUO. Surely that's too big to fit in? If you really wanted it to it should take 6-8 transport slots.

My thoughts on the game against Tiny-Tim the other day, I like the new elements of the Latd list removing all the guard stuff gives it a more of a chaos cult feel rather than guard/cult squashed together. Also the two support choices per core formation is a good addition makes the list a bit more flexible. Although not sure why there is a movement increase for the plague tower (it makes them a bit too good, I know they are initiative 2+ but their a little cheaper than Death Guard and can taken separately as well) and why the cannons of khorne are not khornite.

_________________
http://brokenuniverse1978.blogspot.co.uk

Oh, didn't know the FW daemons were modeled after Epic ones.
I always thought they were part of their ortinary "tru scale" thing. Anyway the Great Unclean One has more DC then a Warhound Titan, surely the FW warhound would be much larger then the Bloodthirster in your picture?. And if you look at the daemon prince that model is as big as the Greater daemon but is only an ordinary "infantry" slot...
To me the sizes in Epic is very much depending on how good the model will look, not as much how realistic the measurements is. It will be very hard to get all the marines in the (first) thunderhawk for example.
That said, I don't think it will matter to me if the Daemon fit or not. So do as you like

I'm with the Angel on the Tower. Why would they have a faster move then IG Superheavies for example?

/Uven