Congratulations

Yeah, good to read this! Gratulations for hard work!

I'm thinking of trying out the Emperor class titans at some point and have been looking over their stats.

The Warmonger's Doomstrike Missiles don't have a fire arc. Is this a mistake? The other 3 Emperor titan arm weapons all have Forward Arc and the Doomstrike Missiles on the model look like they would be similarly constrained.

A Warmonger on overwatch could currently fire a missile in any direction, which could be pretty useful in certain situations or against certain armies. Something to correct before the list goes in the upcoming tournament pack?

Nope, not a mistake. Looks like it goes back to at least 3.15 so unless there was a error then it's as intended.

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-Vaaish

Er I didn't mean mistake as in just a copy error between documents.

I meant a mistake in terms of what the missiles likely should have, on the basis of WYSIWYG and consistency with all other imperial titan arm weapons (which all have at least forward arc). I own a Warmonger and the missile arm looks like it should be forward arc rather than all round.

Unless anyone has any good reason for it to be all round I would switch it to forward in your position Vaaish, regardless of how long it's been like that. It's a minor change for a rarely used unit that makes sense.

The missile doesn't necessarily need to point directly at the target upon firing to maneuver to the target. However, regardless of the model or theory, is there any pressing game play imbalance caused by the current rules? I don't see any convincing reason that makes this change necessary.

You've got it wrong though, the burden of proof isn't to keep the status quo, it's to make a change to the list. I appreciate your opinion, but the question isn't open for debate unless there's evidence of an imbalance to the list.

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-Vaaish

If that were the case then why would the same support missiles on other Imperial titans be restricted by fire arcs as normal?

In terms of game balance it does make the Warmonger a fair bit better than the Imperator in certain situations. Say where the titan legion are playing a sneaky enemy with little on the table; necrons, planetfall or air assault based SMs, ect. Lacking any good targets to shoot the AM player might put their Emperor class titan onto overwatch for protection. If Terminators or Necrons appeared behind it or a Manta, Thunderhawk or Executioner planetfell behind it then an Imperator wouldn't be able to overwatch it with much. The Warmonger could lob a Deathstrike Missile or Vortex Missile behind it though.

The Quake Cannon on the Imperator should really be fixed forward rather than no arc too - are you really telling me that gun should be able to fire all round? Ditto the Warmonger's Head Gun. Considering these other obviously inappropriate omissions it seems likely the Doonstrike Missiles not having a fire arc is an error rather than intended.

I disagree with you - in my opinion consistency and unit's having appropriate stats are strong reasons for making small changes like this, rather than it having to be about balance, but you're the army champion so it's ultimately your call.

Again, none of what you say is proof of imbalance. Prove it's an issue and we'll fix it, until then no dice.

The quake cannon is a typo. Just checked the earlier lists and its fixed forward. Same for the head gun. Good catch, i'll add them to the errata.

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-Vaaish

Can someone please describe to me how a Marine list defeats an AM list? I'm starting to find the amount of MW + RA + large amounts of ranged shooting in lists these days to be OTT.

Currently, as an example, with

2 Reavers with Plasma Destructors and 2 Gatling Blasters each
12x MW2+ @75cm slow fire OK so let's say 6x per turn.
24x AP4+/AT4+ @60cm

4 Warhounds each with VMB and TLDs
16x AP5+/AT3+ @60cm
16x AP3+/AT5+ @45cm
(ALL this before sustained fire stats taken into account)
+
Marauders
TBolts
TBolts

Theory is walk up titans kill everything that has AA and hose the infantry so badly there isn't much left, then drop bombers and fighters on them. Rinse and repeat.

If you try Air Assault you get Thunderbolts CAPing and likely OWing titans.

The fact the list gets almost as many activations as a Marine list can field seems wrong when you need 2-3 formations to take out one of the major titans and also have to factor in buying delivery systems to get Marines to the titans without getting picked off on the way.

What have Marine players done to defeat a list like this? I'm seriously curious.

Cheers all

Matt,

I lost to CSM Thousand Sons with the Tournament list I took for CA. Yes it requires the player to gang up and assault Titans. However I think it is more about how they play the game as a whole. From objective placement, the use of terrain and how the player shapes the Titan players actions before setting about the kill.

It's conversant as a Titan player when faced with a Titan killer list. I faced off against 4 Shadowswords, 2 Warhounds, deathstrikes, tank and mech inf companies at CA in one game. I simply shaped the player into the result I was after. Making actions that may not get you the kill you initially want, however making the other player use his units in a way they don't want to.

Read a book on Manoeuvre Theory, the aim isn't to defeat the army, but to defeat the plan the army wants to use. I have a disk here with the Pam on it and a PowerPoint presentation that I am holding for Ben. Happy to share the good oil with you mate.

Cheers
Aaron

Seeing a large portion of my games are against marines of various flavors, typically you need to break the AMTL objective placement so the titans have to go farther to hold objectives. The second thing is to go after the small formations like warhounds. This is especially true if they are singles as they go down easily.

Take away the limited mobility AMTL has and you'll probably win or at the worst draw.

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-Vaaish

Congratulations on getting it signed off. It's a great list with an excellent presentation, and it's obvious a lot of work has one into it, so thanks and well done.

I had a couple test games against it recently, and found it remarkably powerful against standard, non-tailored lists. The potential firepower is frankly phenomonal. If you'd like feedback in advance for any future tweaks of AMTL as a tournament list, without going in to specifics my advice would be look towards turn some of the dials down before up.

But great work, well done.

Hey matt, I'm always interested in feedback and seeing how folks are using the lists. If you've got battle reports or even the lists used, I'd love it if you posted them.

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-Vaaish