Great feedback from everyone. Thank you all! More than anything, I am happy that this has sparked so much discussion. I honestly did not think it would inspire such spirited debate!
Based on the feeback, here are the changes I am going to implement for playtesting immediately.
- Dreadnoughts reduced from 75 to 50 points.
- Teleport to be added as an upgrade option for assault formations at 50 points. Assault formations may take either the teleport or the assault upgrade, but not both. I'm inclined to think +25 is more appropriate, but others have said they feel +75 is more appropriate, so we will split the difference and see how +50 holds up under playtesting.
Changes I will NOT be making at this time -
- Cost of Baal Predators. While I generally feel they are overpriced at 300, I'd like to wait and see what effect the teleporting assault marines have on the list first.
- Death Company getting teleport. From a fluff standpoint, I'm not convinced frothing madmen would have the tactical acumen to pull off such complex and risky maneuvers, and from a gameplay standpoint, I'd like to wait and see what the effects of the other changes are first before we start throwing the monkey wrench of teleporting an ultra elite assault unit like Death Company into the mix.
- Addition of Thunderhawk Transporters - simply adds too many variables to a list that frankly has bigger fish to fry at the moment. Also, the fact that there does not seem to be consensus regarding the cost across different marine lists is a concern to me. Dobbsy and GlynG are doing awesome work on standardizing this so we'll let them finish up and then circle round to this conversation again, if needed.
Changes up for discussion -
- Stormravens - I am looking for some consensus here. Either they retain 4 missiles each at 75 points, or they drop down to 2 missiles each at 50 points. I'm fine with them either way, but please keep in mind that if they are dropped to 2 missiles / 50 points, there will need to be a corresponding drop in the cost of the 4 Stormraven formation. 200 points feels a little "popcorn-y" to me for such a unit, but, I am open to ideas. Perhaps 200 is right if they essentially operate as a "tough landspeeder" formation. This is a change I would like to make in either direction ASAP, so feedback is greatly appreciated.
- Creating a "standard" formation of 4 assault marine stands with the option to teleport. To me, this feels more potentially imbalancing than anything else we've discussed, but I am certainly open to the idea. If they were priced in such a way that they could retain usability while at the same time not be open to "popcorn" abuse, it could work out very well. Perhaps something like 225 for the unit? When you consider adding a Chaplain, Captain, etc, it becomes 275, which is not cheap. Hmm. Could work.
A note on playtesting - I want to say that I value everyone's feedback and I know there are quite a few people here who have been playing longer than I have who have very valuable input. However, perhaps due to my degree in political science, I tend to weight empirical data more heavily than theory or anecdotal evidence. With that in mind, I would sincerely appreciate if more people contributing their thoughts could also contribute some playtests with the list - it needn't be anything near as intricate as the ones I write up - maybe just the lists, a general summary, and your thoughts.
In short, I am going to make all changes based primarily on hard evidence demonstrated in battle reports. At the moment, however, the sample size for playtesting the Blood Angels consists solely of my battle reports. If that's all that we have, that is what I will go on, but I am of course acutely aware of the limitations associated with that.
I will have a revised playtesting list written up within the next couple of days. Dobbsy, can we make arrangements for me to get the word document for the list?
Again, thanks everyone! Let's get this list done and approved!!
_________________ Former Blood Angels Army Champion Epic Gamers Los Angeles Chapter Armies Played: Blood Angels Black Legion Codex Marines Imperial Fists
|