Hi,

Finally got my book today!

It looks great and ill be having a good read through later on. I might even have a go at cobbling some armies together.

Steve

Hi again,

In a rush of enthusiasm, i have created 2 lists for middle earth. You can see/download them here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ay19h2wksrkvn ... 0LOTR.xlsx

Cheers,
Steve

I like the look of those lists Steve! I think the match-up would provide an interesting game as well.

There were some players looking for some LOTR lists on another forum. I'll be directing them to your link.

Thanks for sharing!

Nice! I like the Uruk-Hai army!

Already wonder how a Ringwraith on Fellbeast would look like!

_________________

Here's one idea:

Ringwraith on Fellbeast
Heroic Unit
MOV 10
CQ d8
BAR d8
Behemoth, Flyer, Terror, Beat Back, Sword

Hi,

I've just finished my first reading of the rulebook and I really liked most of it. I got the impression that MAYHEM combines the best parts of Warmaster and Hordes of the Things. I still have to find out how it plays though.

Here are some questions and comments.

First, is the Generals Compendium also available to buyers of the print edition?


(a) Rules and presentation

While I liked the rules their presentation needs some work. Many things are left implicit are are only explained at a later point. For instance, the section explaining the turn sequence should be moved to the beginning.

Another example is the cost of a unit. It should be written explicitly that the cost of a unit is obtained by adding the costs of MOV, CQ, BAR, designation and additional traits.

Another thing I noticed is that it is rarely stated explicitly which die type to take for a certain roll. For instance, that close combat uses the CQ die or which die to take for the range and damage of a ranged attack.

Also some things would be better explained using diagrams.

Here are some more specific questions:

(1) What exactly does "squaring up" mean? Does it just mean pivoting the unit at the point of contact until its front edge is parallel to the contacted edge of the opponent, or is the unit also shifted laterally until its front corners touch the corners of the opponent?

(2) Is there a difference between "beat back" and "drive back"? The explanations are exactly the same, except for beat back being caused by "besting in combat" while "drive back" is caused by "causing harm". (Is there a difference?) If these are really different, their descriptions should explicitly state which parts differ and which are the same.

(3) I haven't yet played a game, but just from reading the rules I got the expression that the leadership value of an army is way to cheap. Probably I'm missing something.


(b) Typography and wording

(1) In many places where a dash would be appropriate you use a hyphen instead.

(2) In headings there are many "+" instead of "t". (pages 8 "beat back", 14 "heroic unit", 17 "ranked fighting", 24 "size categories" and "victory conditions", 28 "copyright" and "brent")

(3) Words set in capitals need increased interletter spacing. For emphasis purposes I would generally use italic instead of all-caps.

(4) There are several lines starting with a space and there are double spaces between words.

(5) Please use a real multiplication sign instead of an "X". If your font doesn't have one, I suggest to take a lowercase sans-serif "x".

(6) I suggest to right justify price tags, i.e.,

"Beasts .... 2 crowns"

Some minor points:

page 16 "repeating crossbows": The line "Weapon 12/12" is set in the wrong font.
page 19 "artillery": The second line in the list should not have a bullet point.
page 24 "size categories": The second "now" in "Now that ..., we can now speak ..." should be removed.
page 33 "skirmisher" The specification "1/4 the size" is ambiguous. Does it refer to the area of the base or to the length of a side?
page 35 "chaos": What are abominations combining both? Are these just units with both traits? How would this work?
page 35 "sorcerous designations": What is the purpose of this paragraph (the last sentence of the left column)? If this is the introduction to the material on the right column, it should be moved to the top of that column.
page 35 "construct": You specify two times that one uses the attrition rule.
page 37 "stronghold upgrades": First you give an example with 3 upgrades, then you state that 2 are the maximum.

Glad to hear that your liking what you see so far!


It should be available soon for those that purchased the print edition only. Stay tuned for updates.


Where to put specific portions of the rules is always a tough decision. In this case, I felt that if I put the turn sequence at the front of the book without any reference point for the various rules that it used that it could be confusing for players that get easily overloaded with too many 'forward references'.


Both. The leading edge of the moving unit is placed flush/parallel with the unit that it contacts with the front corners of the two units touching.

The mechanics for resolving beat back and drive back are exactly the same [as you already noted]. The difference is measured by which units are immune to [or have rules creating unique interactions with] them.

For example, a unit that is disciplined [page 17] would not be driven back by volley fire, BUT it could be beaten back by a troll behemoth if it were bested in combat.

The leadership values are good. I would recommend using the same leadership for both armies for your first few games. After that, I would try not to have more than a one-step difference in leadership values until you have a good handle on how everything works together.


It means that is your army is:
- based on 60x60mm squares then your heroic skirmisher should be based on 30x30mm squares
- based on 50x50mm squares then your heroic skirmisher should be based on 25x25mm squares
- based on 40x40mm squares then your heroic skirmisher should be based on 20x20mm squares


That will be revealed soon!


I did. I was just trying to drive home the point.


Keeps may have a maximum of 2 upgrades no matter how many sections it is made up of.
Strongholds may have as many upgrades as there are sections.

Thanks for the feedback! I hope you enjoy the game, and I'm around if you have any questions.

A little something for your Mayhem army construction needs. Armies of Mayhem now available as 'pay what you want' on Wargame Vault.

Most Excellent!

Maybe a a list of player armies could join the fun in the future. I am planing a giant-only army but i need the right models.

_________________
Bioframe - my first wargame:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=31704

Most definitely! The plan is to look to the players and enthusiasts to drive where the content will go in the future- let me know what they want to see. I'm even open to the idea of players creating their own data files that could eventually be added to the official download.

By the way, thanks for pointing me in the direction of BattleScribe in the first place! It may not have the freedom of a completely open builder, but I think the current solution works really well.

I think that is the best way.




You're welcome, BattleScribe is the best generic List builder out there.
The army list will help getting new players for the game. I played a demo with a friend and completly forgot to make new armys so we used the ones from my first games. I think this will also help to test new combinations without going through the hassle of creating a new unit. And then use them as a base model for your own.

Will buy the Armylsits later this week.

Btw, do I get a notification when the rulebooks gets updated? Do you even plan to update them?

_________________
Bioframe - my first wargame:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=31704

When I do updates or add additional content, it automatically sends an email from Wargame Vault if you have your account set-up to receive notifications. However, sometimes these can get diverted to your spam folder.

The best way to make sure you get notified about significant updates is to subscribe to/follow my site.

I got a notification for the Mayhem Armies. So i think it works fine.

_________________
Bioframe - my first wargame:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=31704

Hi Bombshell games,

Thanks for posting this - this an awesome resource for Mayhem Players
Really impressed by how quickly this is developing.

A few thoughts:

Armies of Mayhem:
The army lists look fun and characterful. The army specific bonuses look balanced and more importantly fun to play (I can bet that Mr gonzo's undead are going to have fun with the werecreatures and necromancers summoning 2 units at once!)
I like the fact that they also show the very different kinds of forces players can do.

Have these seen much playtesting or are you interested on how players get on with them?

Battlechest
generic lists this should make things easier for new players to use as a basis for their own, and can also mean that intro-games and the like are easier to do.

I noticed that some units(i.e dwarf runemaster) already have a lot of the possible (weapon/traits) options you could take. Would it be possible to create a unit with CQ +BAR D20, Mv D4, and then have all possible upgrades included, plus adding point costs to improve the stats? And then with the designations listed. Even if this doesn't print out perfectly I think this would be really useful addition as then we have a proper generic army builder. (As monstrous creatures, strongholds and War machines are there already there we're kinda close anyway.)

If this is something we can do
with the pro-edition anyway, let me know

Oh, and one typo I spotted - Huntsmen are 170pts in Battlechest lists.

bombshell games wrote:
Most definitely! The plan is to look to the players and enthusiasts to drive where the content will go in the future- let me know what they want to see. I'm even open to the idea of players creating their own data files that could eventually be added to the official download.

Excellent! May well have a go at coming up with one or two and sending them along to you. Do you have a general principle for what lists should include? I take it you would look to have lists that are proportionately powerful and with an army ability similar to the ones already on there.

Cheers,
Mark

_________________

Well, I aim to please!


Thanks!

I'm always interested in hearing how players get on with them- truly! Those lists have been tested extensively through simulation and have seen quite a bit of time on the table as well but nowhere near the amount of 'actual play' that the core/stock armies have. They are definitely designed to fit and interact with one another in interesting ways. If you play them extensively, I think you'll find that the compositions make for thoughtful strategic considerations and build challenges. Some of the units in there are definitely a handful!

As you already noted though, the real goal of those lists is to have fun and offer up a slightly different flavor of MAYHEM.


I'm looking at this. Implementing truly customizable stats [MOV, CQ, BAR] within the structure of BattleScribe is a challenge. This is mostly due to the output since the core of the program assumes that you already have a profile that you are upgrading or modifying.

It's much more likely that we would be able to have an extensive list of generic starting stat lines that could be modified with all the normal upgrades with the addition of the designations. This comes with it own set of unique problems but is much more likely.

Now, since BattleScribe is open source, you could create a set of profiles yourself and use the weapon packages that are already in the game systems to make your very own rosters.


If you want to create lists that would be compatible and/or specifically playable with those in the Armies of Mayhem catalogue, then the army powers should be proportionately powerful and custom units should have a specific role both within the force and the ecosystem [if that makes sense].

You can also do a little world building and submit your own set if you like- 'Mark's World of Mayhem'. Either way, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.