The current version of the EEC rules can be downloaded at http://brumbaer.de/EEC.zip

The following is the unchanged post for the sake of historic correctness and to prevent references to get obscured. For the current rules please refer to the document above.


It is time to help the idea along and to put our money where our mouth is.
As initiator we will open the dance and organize the first European Epic Championship.

The following is to tell you what it will be like and enable you quickly to decide wether you’re interested and to check wether the date fits your schedule.

The championship will be held on Saturday 27th and Sunday 28th of September.
The venue is the Siemens Verwaltungsgebäude (Siemens administration building) in

Nonnendammallee 104
13625 Berlin - Germany

There will be 5 games, 3 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday.

We will start on the 27th at 9:00.
The tournament will end on the 28th at 17:00.

First, second and third placed team, first placed single player and best painted army (players choice) will receive a cup.

The tournament fee is 20€ per player. This will be used to cover the cost of the tournament and cups.

There is room for 8 national teams of 4 players each.
To allow as many nationalities as possible to take part there will be two rounds of registration.
The first round will last till (including) the 17th of August. In this time we accept only one team per nation.
If there are places left at the 18th of August, additional teams from nations already registered can be entered.
The second round of registration will last till (including) the 14th of September.

Each team will consist of 4 players of the same nation.
It is possible for nations which can not field a team of 4 on their own, to form a combined team.
This shall not be used to field what essentially is a second national team in the first round of registration, but can be used to field a second team in the second round of registration.

The rules and army lists in use will be the NetEA Tournament Pack 2013.
The pdf can be downloaded here http://www.net-armageddon.org/sites/default/files/compilations/netea_tourament_pack_2013-08-07.pdf
The lists within this pack are not the newest. They are chosen, because they are stable and and compiled into one document.

All armies must be painted.
Army size is 3000 points.
No team may field the same race more than once. Race being Space Marines, Orks, Imperium see below. I.e. it is not possible for a team to field both a Steel Legion and a Minervan army, as both belong to the same Race.
All teams have to mail all their army lists till (including) the 14th of September. On the 15th September all lists will be published on the the net - the url will be announced later.
So there is not theoretical advantage for the hosting team.

The games played are using the standard tournament game rules. The terrain is fixed. All the usual like the referee is always right, discuss the terrain first, be nice to each other etc. applies.
A game lasts a maximum of 2 hours 45 minutes. You will be informed 10 minutes in advance and will be able to finish the current turn.

The matches will be determined randomly but there is a number of criteria which will be fulfilled.
No player will play against a team member.
No player will play twice against any opponent.
Each player will play players of as many different nations as possible.
Each team will play the same number of matches against every other team. If this is not possible, the number of matches against each nation will not differ by more than 1.
Each player will play on as many different tables as possible.

An early version of the web app to be used to determine the matches can be found at http://brumbaer.de/Matchmaker/index.html?a

This system is used intentionally to have the players play as many players from different nations as possible and to prevent scheming and creating rock-paper-sciccors armies.

There will be a paper at each table for each player to note the objectives claimed and the number of victory points earned by broken or destroyed enemy units at the end of the game.

Tournament points are awarded as follows
3 points, if the player holds at least 2 objectives and he holds more objectives than his opponent.
2 points, if no player holds at least 2 objectives or both hold the same number of objectives and the player has earned 300 or more victory points than his opponent.
1 point, if no player holds at least 2 objectives or both hold the same number of objectives and the victory points difference is less than 300 points.
0 points, in all other cases.

The ranking for teams as well a single player will be determined by tournament points.
In case of a draw the difference in objectives claimed and lost will be used to decide the order.
If this is also equal the teams/players in question will both hold the rank.

The web app mentioned above will calculate the tournament points and determine the ranking automatically from the objectives and victory points.

The venue
The janitor will give you a badge to be worn while on the premises.
There will be snacks and drink available, for low prices.
Alcohol is not allowed on the premises.
Smoking is not allowed in the building, but there is a smoker_s corner at the end of the corridor, where we play.
If there is interest we will organize a joint dinner in a restaurant on Saturday after the tournament.

Accommodation and travel
The Siemens building can easily be reached by using the underground, there is an underground station (Nonnendamm) directly in front of the Siemens building.

The building belongs to the Siemens company, so we can not offer to sleep on the premises.
There is a hostel near by http://www.sleepcheaphostel.com/index2.html.
There is an Ibis hotel at the train station in Berlin-Spandau. It is located 2 minutes walk from the underground line that stops directly at the Siemens Hauptgebäude. Travel time less than 15 minutes. The cheaper flights land in Berlin Schönefeld. There is a train going from the airport to the train station in Berlin-Spandau. Using the Regional Express you can be in Berlin Mitte from Spandau in 15 minutes.
And of course there plenty more hotels in Berlin, depending or your plans you might be looking for something more central, more expensive, less expensive ….
The other Berlin airport Tegel is close to Siemens, probably 15 minutes by car, (just to give you an idea).

A race is what in the NetEA Compendium would be a colour coded group and what in Epic UK would be grouped together in a Codex.
Space Marines
Codex Astartes
Salamanders
Scions of Iron
White Scars
Imperial Guard
Steel Legion
Baran Siege Masters
Korps of Krieg
Minervan Tank Legion
Chaos
Chaos Cultist Stigmatus Covenant
Chaos Space Marine Black Legion
Eldar
Biel Tan
Alaitoc
Necron
Necron
Dark ELdar
Dark Eldar
Ork
War Horde
Speed Freaks
Feral Orks
Tau
Tau
Tyranid
Tyranid

We will prepare a tournament pack for registered teams, to give additional detail.

If you have any questions mail me at brumbaer@brumbaer.de

I'd be interested, my only query would be the scoring system which seems to offer very little incentive tor aggressive, attacking play. A 2-0 win is the same as a 5-0 win and that a win scores 3pts and a win on victory points 2pts provides very little incentive to go for a win - I'd expect to see lots of defensive lists and lots of AMTL who usually can force a game to VPs.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Interested, but flying from North Yorkshire looks to be a pain.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

I'm from the same Gaming Club as brumbaer.
We used the scoring system in tournaments before and are using it at the moment for our Epic League. Normally it functions very well.

Very interested!

Time to rally some people here in Austia! But I don't have high hopes, since the usual suspects are already going abroad for gaming in Summer, so probably won't have time/cash for a second trip. We'll see....

about the scoring: While I am not familiar with how your scoring system works in practice, all I can say is that I have used the EpicUK system (with small adjustments) and I think it is excellent and also very easy to use.

cheers,

Hi all,

A French team is building up. Thank you for this very nice project.

I do agree with steve54, for me victory 5-0 on the 3 turn should not give the same among of victory points as a victory 2-1 on turn 4. Anyway my philosophy alway have been "your tournament your rules" i fully accept them or I stay at home

_________________
Cornelius
Fancy an Epic game in london ? PM me !

We use the scoring systems for years and it is simple (you win by objectives, by points, draw or loose) and works well.
In the system we use, all that counts is that you win.
This will give you a chance in the tournament even when you're army isn't maxed out -
and allows a wider variety of armies to win. You can win with an offensive, defensive, fast moving, slow moving, shooting, mixed or close combat oriented list with about equal chances of success.
While I personally like the idea of an incentive for aggressive play, I do not feel it outweighs the restriction it puts on army selection. Most people will opt for offensive, fast moving, close combat, because the chances to score high are greater.

I doubt that people will change their armies much depending on the scoring system, because they are used to a certain style of play and if in doubt they will choose an army they know how it works - and the "win only" scoring doesn't favor any army style as openly as the "Quick win", so there is no real need to change anyway.

I'm not saying it's wrong to do so, I'm only saying that a different take is as "good" or as "valid". One of the goals of this exercise is to bring people together, play against players you usually do not play against, hopefully armies (compositions) you usually do not play against, play against "meta plays" you usually do not play against and experience different "concepts" in action.

May it be as it is, give it a chance, see how it works out in real life. The concept does not change the game per se.
When the tournament is is the UK, we will use whatever scoring system is chosen, no matter what kind of lists it will favor. There will be enough lead time to select and test armies, if anybody should feel that some armies are more favored than others - adapt and overcome

I will do everything I can to come. Sounds great! Great initiative!

Being Swedish I'm not an epic Uk player but i do agree I'd prefer a system were there's a more differentiated points score for winning. I wouldn't mindre actual country battles. Were for instance all Swedes play all the english guys and so forth (NOT ETC stile, but random matchups within the two countries to avoid boring listmatching). These are just suggestions, I'd happily come as is.

One thing though is that I noted the time per match. To me less than 3 hours per game makes it stressful. I'd like to go to this mainly for a chance to meet you all and play some relaxed friendly games. I'd much rather play 4 games with more time. Say 3,5 hours for example. This would be more relaxed and have more time for a dinner or a round Berlin bars in the evening.

I think 3 hours is plenty personally, but I agree the focus should be more on enjoying the game and the discussion that happens during it

I may be wrong here, but I assumed the format would be each team plays each team? 6 teams means 5 combos so every player plays opponents from 5 different groups?

I'd be happy to use the scoring system proposed, although rather than levelling the playing field i think it just favours other armies and playstyles, I'd expect AMTL and siegemasters to be particularly effective given that they rarely score 4/5-0 wins, but can usually play for a draw quite easily...

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Scoring system - personally I think it will encourage armies which are easy to get to a VPs situation with (AMTL, Siege) and encourage defensive play. Further I'm not a fan of trying to influence army composition through scoring systems - perceptions of what is a 'maxed-out' army vary massively

Games - for me 3hrs is more than enough per game and 5 games is ideal. After looking at flights a UK player is probably looking at £500-600 for the weekend so the more games the better

Spokesmen - how is it decided who speaks for a country? Volunteers or who puts a team together first or ?

Future events - how is decided where to go in 2015?

Details - how much is on-site food?, do you have prize support? a referee?

Local FAQs - rather than ask players to sort out details (in different languages) a FAQ detailing terrain rules etc might be a good idea

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

In terms of rules, it's good to have a healthy discussion about it but let's not give it too much focus in case it seems negative, I think cornelius is right, in the end it is up to the TO to make a balanced decision about what he thinks he can run and what will work well. Personally I can see both sides, but in the end I don't think it will end up making a huge difference unless the players let it - people will have fun. Let's just get behind, even if we might do it differently in our own local customs. At the risk of aggrandising, in my professional life of big EU collaborations there are always things which don't work as well for you as they do for others, you need to be prepared to give people the benefit of the doubt, show appreciation and focus discussion on the things that actually matter in a constructive way. It's been pretty positive so far and thanks to the efforts of brumbaer we have enough solid details now for 2014, so hopefully we will start to see teams come together.

In terms of who speaks for countries, I think we're just going to have to come to consensus for each country individually in an ad hoc way, since some are more organised than others and some will be joining other countries. Cross the bridges when we come to them. I would propose for the UK that it makes sense for Epic UK to make a single proposal, hopefully one that is open to the whole UK community in some way.

Similarly for deciding on future years, I think we can cross that bridge when we come to it too (i.e. if we get two conflicting solid proposals). Not that there is anything in particular stopping us having more than one if there is demand. So far we have concrete proposals for 2014 and 2015 thanks to brumbaer and Steve, I'd say the only thing we need consensus on now is a general principle that the location should change from year to year. So if it's in the UK next year, it could be somewhere else in 2016.

Anyway I wish you all good luck for this year!

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

Than why do you do it ? Your scoring system discourages defensive play and makes e.g. ATML and Baran less attractive. If this isn't influencing the army lists by score points, I don not know what would be.
We just use a different system. Please accept it. It will most likely not make a difference
in this tournament. It might make one if there would be an universal switch to this scoring system - I do not expect this, so please just see it as a challenge, a way different to the one you are used to.


At the moment we do 5 to 6 tournaments a year 2 Warhammer (we had just tournament no. 26), 2 Epic, and 2 Battletech. We found that there are always slower and faster players. To get 3 games in a day you can't have really games take longer than 3 hours. We usually manage a 3k game in 2 to 2 1/4 hour. So 2 3/4 hours (plus what is needed to finish the turn) is usually enough for most players - not for all though, but that can not be helped. Otherwise most player would have to wait 2 or 3 hours between games.


There are usually gaming circles in every country some operating in the background and some operating in more prominent ways. What I personally hope for is that one of those circles will volunteer to be factually the spokesperson and name one representative to be the "representing" spokesperson. Having a circle supporting the tournament will automatically provide resources for the spokesperson to draw on.
If there is more than one interested spokesperson (single person or "representing" a circle) in a country (not all existing circles are represented in taccom and might not hear about the championship anyway) I hope they will sort it out on their own, probably even sharing players and resources. If this is not possible I will decide on whatever information about the possible spokespersons is available. I'm happy to give that position up, once the championship is up and running, and we can have a council or whatever, but to get us walking and not to drown in discussions, I just usurp this position for now.


There seems to be some interest and will to hold the event 2015.
So I hope and to be true, expect, someone to volunteer for 2015. If there is more than one volunteer, we can discuss it on Tacco, if no consigns is possible the last organizer chooses which volunteer will be next.
I see more of a problem , when there is no volunteer.
But the discussion about the next tournament should never start before the last one has been finished. Otherwise interest may be split or redirected. IMHO best would be, that the spokespersons discuss their will to volunteer with their supporters/circle and state their intention to hold the next championship within a fortnight after the conclusion of the "current" championship. So the spokesperson has a lot of time to make his mind up, and the decision who will hold the next championship can be taken early enough to give enough lead time, even if the next championship would be earlier in the year.



Drinks .5l Mineral water, schorle (apple juice with mineral water), some kind of coke and orange drink 0,25€.
A roll with cold meat or cheese 1,00€
2 Wiener 0,75€
Bockwurst (Big thick Wiener) 0,50€
Mars 0,50€

No prize support beyond the cups. There will be a button as a memento, but I doubt that will count.
There will be at least one referee.

If there is interest we will have a joint dinner on Saturday. The options would be Italian - this seems to be the smallest denominator for most groups - or more German like.
Italian food would be a la carte about 12€ per meal (one drink included) and up.
The German food would be more expensive, but if we would settle for some kind of Schnitzel (everyone could choose from one of 6 kinds) we can try to organize a deal, so that we could get a meal and one drink for 12€ also.
You can of course also order a la carte if you do not like Schnitzel.
But we can check this out only once we know how many people will attend


As I wrote before, we will prepare a tournament package that will cover this as well.
Obviously we will have to create those, as we do not have any in English.

Sweden has been named as. Possible place from the start. And i know it would be the easies nd cheapest way to hold an event.


On another note i really think you guys should use the Epic UK scoring system, it's far better then anything else I've seen.

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

I suppose it's entirely possible one or more suppliers will will come forward between now and September to offer some prize support. But to be honest, team prizes are a bit difficult anyway - it's hard to share a prize, which means they end up being quite expensive (i.e. 4 x individual prizes). Personally I'm not that bothered by prizes, although maybe that's because I rarely win

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list