Witchhunters |
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Witchhunters  Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:47 am |
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*sigh* so I guess I should be happy, seeing I win around 1% of the wargames I play.... 
No seriously, my army selection is usually pathetic e.g. 40k with Death Guard and nothing else - all on foot! - no long range heavy weapons, no Rhinos, no nothing. The DG are great troops, but too slow and suffer against any Eldar who just keep await and plaster them. By the way, all my 3+ save attempts come up as 2, which really doesn't help. Didn't work too well, but it was fun!
Which (more to the the point) means I agree. COming up (eventually) a WHFB army with no Black orcs, no Savage orcs, no trolls or giants or Boarboyz - and loads of arrers! Will take ages to paint and should prove terrible. But I lke orcs and I like arrers - so....
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Xavi
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:54 pm |
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Jimbo
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:32 pm |
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| Quote (Xavi @ 18 2004 Feb.,11:54) | Vanvlak, the thing is that you can make fluffy competitive armies as well. ...
An other thing is that you can modify the fluff. |
I'm sorry Xavi but you seem to have missed the point!
Having a competitive army (fluffy or otherwise) is not what gaming is about (for me).
And as for changing the fluff, all I can say is cheesey... why not arm your archers with twin-linked lascannons, much more effective!
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:48 pm |
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Hi Xavi - it would also help if I managed to roll saving throws...
I guess my problem is I'm a bit of an extremist, and tend to adhere to codex/army book fluff. 
Your 'Phoenician' army sounds interesting - any pic of the Eagle?
Back to witch hunters -  - what I really like about this and the daemonhunter armies are the weirdo-types which collect around inquisitors. So much so that I cannot really see any inquisitor type armies (of any sort) in Epic - too much of a small, ragtag elite group to fit in. Whilst a SoB army could work, the inq. themselves would loose some of their characterfulness in Epic - UNLESS:
army including:
inquisitor lord - general
lesser inqs
retinue stands (2 stands per inq unit, with Chimera/Rhino)
hordes of frateris militia (militant civilians), with missionary and preacher upgrades - think of these as Imperial 'cultists'
SoB units with all their troop and vehicle types (if ever the models will exist)
redemptionist knights
preacher knights (w. loudspeakers and preacher stands)
Inquisition Leviathan
Inquisition flame engine (w. large flamer weapon)
Any thoughts?
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Xavi
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:45 am |
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Sample army list ofd "modifyed fluff". Very rough description, but so you get the feeling
SHRINE OF ASURAN LIST:
characters
- Guardian of the flame (hero/lord). Sould carry a halbred and at least half of them must be on foot. Can ride a phoenix (great eagle). preference for fire-related items.
- Priest of asuryan (Mage): high, light or fire lores only.
Core troops
- Spearelves. If possible use olf Phoenix guard minis with the halbred blade torn off. I have 40 of those, BTW 
- Archers as usual
- Silver helms. Only one unit for ever 2 infantry units. The shrine army is not composed of nobles. Prefered magic banner: banner of the lion (inmune to fear and terror, quite disciplined. Name in fluff: Banner of Balance)
- Lothern sea guard: NO
Special units
- Dragon princes: no
- Ellyrion Reavers (Eyes of the Flame). One unit for every SH unit at most.
- Chariots: no
- Swordmasters (Guardians of the Flame). Elite Phoenix Guards (strenght 4 and WS6) armed with halbreds. Same result as a wordmaster, better fluff justification. They are the guardians of the flane itselfd, not the shrine as a whole. Elite amon the elite PG. MUST carry the banner of balance (inune to psichiology) and the Amulet of Purifying flame (champion). Can only be deployed if you also include a PG unit in the army, and the unit should be less expensive than the PG unit.
- Shadow Warriors (Sparks of the flame & Messengers of the fire). As usual. Do NOT hate dark elves
Rare units
- Phoenix Guard. Must be included in the army. Size 15+.
- Repeater bolt throwers. As usual
- Great Eagles (Phoenix Birds). Must be phoenix birds and so must be painted in their respectiove fire colors.
- White Lions: no
Hope that helped you understand what I understand for "creative fluff alteration". I didn't change a single rule OR EVEN army composition. I simply added fluff to justify a shrine of asuryan army. This shouldn't make much sense if you don't play WHFB, but you should get the feeling.
I am a fluffer and I refuse to deploy a single army that hasn't fluff behind it. Usually I end up with quenya names for al my units and at least half a page of fluff for each unit and character (minimum). The lascannon archers is nonsense. I am not changing the fluff nor the rules. I am simply fleshing up the fluff for my forces and setting limits to my army composition myself. Is that bad? Me thinks not
I don't care if I win or not. The important is the feeling of the army. Well, I *do* care about it, but it is clearly secondary over having an army with personality and not simply saying "this is my second units of silver helms and they also have a champion" thast SH unit will have a story about their origin, why they are in the army, what is the name of its champion and its deeds, if any character in the force used to be one of its members.... THAT is whatmakes for an interesting piece of fluff, at least for me.
health and a lot of sixes,
Xavi
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Jimbo
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:08 am |
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| Quote (Xavi @ 19 2004 Feb.,01:45) | | Hope that helped you understand what I understand for "creative fluff alteration". I didn't change a single rule OR EVEN army composition. I simply added fluff to justify a shrine of asuryan army. This shouldn't make much sense if you don't play WHFB, but you should get the feeling. |
I stand corrected and apologise.
There are gamers out there who will turn and change the lists so allowing them a cheesey army, alas there are too many._________________ Jimbo
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:31 am |
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Hi Xavi,
thanks for the army compo - interesting stuff and very fluffy (sorry, couldn't resist ). I could never afford phoenix-spearmen though - 40!!! Having said that, I could, if I concentrate on just one army and one game... but I'd never manage that.
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Xavi
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:35 pm |
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stormseer
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:45 pm |
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netepic
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:51 pm |
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Tas
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Post subject: Witchhunters Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:20 am |
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| Quote (vanvlak @ 19 2004 Feb.,03:48) | Back to witch hunters - ? - what I really like about this and the daemonhunter armies are the weirdo-types which collect around inquisitors. So much so that I cannot really see any inquisitor type armies (of any sort) in Epic - too much of a small, ragtag elite group to fit in. Whilst a SoB army could work, the inq. themselves would loose some of their characterfulness in Epic - UNLESS:
army including:
inquisitor lord - general
lesser inqs
retinue stands (2 stands per inq unit, with Chimera/Rhino)
hordes of frateris militia (militant civilians), with missionary and preacher upgrades - think of these as Imperial 'cultists'
SoB units with all their troop and vehicle types (if ever the models will exist)
redemptionist knights
preacher knights (w. loudspeakers and preacher stands)
Inquisition Leviathan
Inquisition flame engine (w. large flamer weapon)
Any thoughts? |
I think these guys rock too!
I agree in that the *kewl* factor is best represented in 40k and has much less application to Epic. ?Its the same (to me) as having massed armour in 40k games- a few tanks adds flavour- 10+ is stupid.
So the quintessential question is: How to best capture this bit of flavour in a game of epic?
IMHO (and everyone will have a different one, and good for you-you should!) I would have a "normal" IG/SM Army type composition representing an Inquisitor requisitioning local forces ?(nobody says no to the =][=) and then maybe a specialist company unit to represent the Inquisitor and his "specials"
Your Inquisitor and his retinue become the Supreme Commander element, with 2-3 additional stands of weirdos and freaks. ?This is where you have your flagellents, penitent engines (ie Dreadies) and so on. ?They become a detachment in the EA sence- after all the weirdos arent going to charge off kilometers on their own...
A small IG style company of SOB types can then accompany him, but are independant. ?Fit these gals with Tmmolators, jump pack or whatever you like.
I like the Frateris Militia like this too. ?Confessors act as normal Commander type Characters.
Thus with only a small portion of your army being Inquisiton, you have made minimal changes, used existing army lists, yet captured some of the flavour of the Inquisitor Lord and his Merry Men/Women/Things.
For a full scale "War of Faith" type game, its a bit different, but then I would personally have a SoB type force comprising a max of 30% of my overall force. ?This is fluffy because it still retains the IG character of being the main Imperial Force.
This would be what I would do for Arbites troops and the like too. ?A small additional force type, not a whole army on their own which seems inappropriate in Epic scale (to me)
So more faith to those who write their own army lists for an entire SoB/Arbites/Deamon/Witch/Xeno(insert name here) Army, but thats not for me. ?If it works for you- kewl! Please let me have a look at it anyway ? 
For the Emperor!
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Gonna love those Phoenixes (actually I painted one of my great eagle in red and yellow 
I see you understood now what I mean. Is autolimiting yourself and puting the units that you think get the feeling of the list. The one is posted is a rough version of my Asuryan Flame Defenders full HE army list revamp. Right now I am working in Chrace and have a project for saphery after testing the asuryan shrine army with limited success and the Cothique list with ample success.