Finally got me a copy! Yay!
Has been a great read, everything's straight forward and logic within the Versus System!
Command Points and Danger Rolls sound so much fun.
Just a couple questions so far, but they might clear themselves after reading the whole thing again

Really, really like the freedom of the army building rules!
Already having massive fun coming up with lists for different themes.
*Necromancer led Undead army here i come, hehe

One bit of feedback i'd like to give straight away, wouldn't it make sense to update the 'cover' to be the Expanded Edition?
Moreover, why not have the cover as part of the rulebook pdf and give the rule book some form of marking showing its edition/status, like 'Expanded Edition Nov 2013'?!

Won't be long before the Central London Wargames Club sees some Mayhem action!
Both Mark W and i lack full armies at the moment, but we might give it a try using Epic stuff soon!
*Primarch Magnus the Red casting Time Stop and bashing skulls with his CQ D6 (after joining his bodyguard unit) will be truly epic

_________________

Finally! Nice to hear that you're enjoying the read, and I'm around if you have any questions.


I didn't integrate the cover into the PDF to keep the page numbers and spreads the same as the print edition [to be released]. I think that helps down the road when players are referencing the rules and are viewing them in different formats.

On the subject of editions, in hindsight keeping track of the changes would have been a good idea but to be honest I wasn't sure how I was going to add in the expanded material [separate book vs combined version]. I knew what the complete version of the game would look like with all the bells and whistles, but it's been an ongoing organic process to break it down into multiple usable parts. On that note, I think that the upcoming expanded material will allow players to take the game customization to an entirely new level.


Awesome! I'd really love to see what you do with your Epic army list. Based on your comments, I think that you already have a nice handle on the army builder tools and that will just get better as you play and start seeing more and more creative ways to combine traits and stats. Also, one might just see how the basic mechanics and core builds could be converted and expanded for some truly 'Epic Mayhem'.


Now THAT"S what I'm talking about!! I can't wait till you get a couple of games under your belt.

Right, just a couple questions and the hope somebody can help clarifying them.
Apologies if the answers are there and i just don't see them.

- Page 6, Melee Basics, last line: "Harm can be in the form of suffering loss, damage, attrition, or being stunned."
What does stunned refer to?

- Do i need to buy a CQ or BAR value?
As an example, can i create an archer unit just with a MOV value and Long Bows?

_________________

Oopps! That should read disordered! I'll fix that in the update- thanks for spotting it. It may make an appearance in an upcoming game though...


You do need to since your opponent's attacks are resolved against those characteristics. If you really wanted to, then you could just give them both a d20 and hope that no other units attacked them [especially at range]. I would personally give them a d12 minimum for BAR unless you feel pretty confident that you could protect them from ranged fire.

Thanks a lot!

No 10 Crowns Skeleton Longbow Archers then, hehe

_________________

Nice try!!

I think the main thing that Mayhem would need to do Epic would be short range firefights added to assaults, and the ability to transport units. The Artillery rules(with some mods) probably can handle the better long shooting just fine . Maybe we could post some ideas/lists here?
Having said that, I can probably do a footslogging Ork army as is with these rules! Should be fun



That's so fitting for Tzeentch... Damn...

_________________

I think you hit most of the high points that would be required for the conversion. 'Hypothetically speaking' ;) , I may have a few other things planned as well. There are some unique world elements that I feel are not represented in play and would like to give players the tools to better realize the setting on the tabletop. That's the goal anyway!!

Definitely post your ideas and lists here! I'd really like to see how Epic players would approach using/converting MAYHEM over. Would it be safe to say that I could count on you guys for a bit of play-testing if the occasion presented itself??


You could certainly build a pretty mean gargantuan squiggoth!


Indeed...

Or i badly fail my casting roll, my turn ends and you charge the unit with some Nob biker cavalry with lances for free, forcing me to battle with the units D10 CQ, disorder me and let your Fighta Bomber flyers finish me up. All for 1 CP.

Naturally, Mayhem is not ment to work with Sci-Fi miniatures but the army build rules are so flexible, its a real joy!

The more i look at Microworld's wicked 'Chaos' range, the more a Tzeentch themed Warrior of Chaos army idea is forming in my mind!
After the mole man army is done, of course, haha

_________________

Great! Looking forward to it!



true, true - the Chaos Gods are fickle! I actually like this about Mayhem - Magic rules look like they can make lots of drama and memorable turnarounds, as it should be. I believe this is mentioned in the book as 'expect your opponent to activate his favourite unit!'



Agreed, had good fun coming up with army lists as well! And the cool thing about Mayhem, if lots of armies/models appeal you can always play them together as allies without any pesky worries about game balance stopping you putting as many cool models of the table as possible

So Mole Men & Hordes of Tzeentch can fight Araby & High Elves no problem.

One quick rule question: Can ranged troops fire at enemies who are in BtB with your own troops? I couldn't see anything to say otherwise, and as units aren't really 'locked' in melee, I couldn't see why not?
With all the beat back, drive back, etc this would only come up occasionally, but was hoping it was a deliberate departure from the usual.

_________________

Ah, your first Time Tear... they are almost always memorable, and this one sounds like it was really something special!! Time Stop is one of those spells that I almost always buff the roll with some magic points unless things are really desperate, OR I'm trying to pull off something crazy.


Magic can be as risky for the user as it is for his opponent. This is especially if you like to take chances and push things a bit. And it's really tempting- right? Oh, and just wait until someone gets double 1s when summoning a Chaos demon...



Thanks! I love seeing people flexing their creative muscles with the tools. And you nailed it, the point is to put as many cool models on the table as possible!!


I'll want pictures.


As long as the unit making the ranged attack isn't in melee and fulfills all other criteria [line-of-sight, line-of-effect, etc.], then fire away! There are actually some pretty sneaky tactics that you can employ using ranged troops, the right mix of engaging units, and some slick maneuvering.

Yesterday MarkW and myself had our first game, using Epic miniatures, and what a blast it was!

We played pre-Heresy 1k Sons (me, 6 units + general) against Blood Angels (MarkW, 7 units + general), 200 crowns including a sorcerer on each side. Beside lots of consulting the rule book on both sides, the vs system played very smooth and some epic dice rolling, both good and bad, made for a great match!
Unfortunately we didn't take any pictures, which my half painted minis appreciate, hehe

Overall, i enjoyed the tactical challenge command points represent, as well as being able to pump all CP into one unit to have it do several heroic actions in one turn!
Can't wait for the next game!

During the game a couple questions came up, as well as some thoughts after the game:

- Can a unit (not monstrous creature) initiate a ranged while being in base-to-base contact with an enemy unit?

- Heros, page 11, Joining a unit: "If this movement will allow you to reach a friendly unit, then you may join any that are within your current movement range."
The rules says 'may' so i don't need to join an unit even if in range?
Is there a penalty for not joining a unit?

- Sorcery, page 21, Casting: "The cost of casting a spell is 1 AP."
AP is not referenced anywhere else and we assumed it is exactly the same as CP (and gets payed out of the CP pool)?!

- The spell 'Blink' caused a bit of confusion and it would be great to know if we played it right.
The way we played it was nominating a unit after a successful casting and 'blinking' it within the casting result in inches measured from the nominated unit (rather then from the caster). Correct?

- The dismissal of an upkeep spell doesn't count as an action for the (original) caster, right?

- Break checks seemed slightly… not threatening.
Both armies had a Command Roll of D10 and we felt that the threat of rolling a 1 even with 2-3 die was kind of neglectable. Are games supposed to end more likely by a General kill or wiping out of the opposing force?

- Feels like the Quick Reference Sheet should have the movement rules on it as well.

- We played on a 24inch square table which felt small but not limiting.
However, would there be a recommendation about the size of terrain pieces for 6-10mm games?
Our table already felt packed with two terrain pieces.

_________________

Sounds like it was an awesome game! If only there were some pictures...


No.


If a hero is force to flee for a unit and is unable to reach one, then he is eliminated from play. That bit was accidentally edited out in the last revision but has been replaced in the upcoming update. The emphasis in the sentence you quoted should be on the word any and not may. Meaning that you don't have to join the closest unit but that you may join any friendly unit in range.


Another little slip that has been fixed in the update. It is, indeed, supposed to be Cp. You played it right- good eye!


You played it correctly. The distance the unit blinks is from its current location.


Actively dismissing a spell [and not simply casting another upkeep spell] would require an action. This means that if you want to move that barrier out of your way so that you can charge your opponent, then it's going to cost you!!


I hear what your saying. Doing some quick math in my head, I believe you're looking at roughly a 27% chance on 3 dice of getting a 1 on any single die. That isn't super threatening. If you find that your games don't end quickly enough with the breaking rule, then just use the hard break rules.

Besides adding a little tension and uncertainty, one of the main reasons the rule is in place is to keep small 'super elite' armies from being routed too quickly. I'm talking about something like a Khorne Chaos fantasy army with fully decked out units. You might only have 4-5 units on the field for a force like this in a small game of MAYHEM. I wanted to ensure that a list like that remained a truly viable option.


There's more on this in the final update [which should be out this next week - I hope!], but the general idea is to make the terrain areas divisible by unit basing. Some options for 6-10mm would be: 40mmx40mm areas, 40mmx80mm, 80mmx80mm. These can be is various shapes, but it's best if units can neatly square-up on distinct sections. If using existing terrain, then just discuss with your opponent how units should/will square-up on these terrain features.

I like to create interesting areas of interaction and/or opportunities for different strategic and tactical possibilities when setting up terrain. For example, the simple act of placing a large number of small terrain features to the extreme left [extreme right for the opposing player] leaves a large area of the battlefield for open field match-ups while the twists and turns of the terrain laden portion of the field can be used to great effect by fast cavalry, heroes, and ranged units looking for cover.

Also, areas of terrain that are classified as 'visually difficult' only can be used to great effect to make the play area more visually appealing. Areas of tall grasses, scrub, and brush work well for this.

Thanks a lot for your response!

I see your point about the Break Check.
Also seems like our terrain was way to big, hehe

Also thanks for clarifying the hero rule. Very harsh.
Need to start keeping my heroes much closer to units.



Sorry for being a bit slow here... Dismissing a spell would need an action from a sorcerer unit and therefore counts for Overdrive ?
Can it be done by any caster or does it need to be the original caster?

The wording in the rule book doesn't state it clearly (for us).
Page 23, Upkeep and Dismissal: "Upkeep spell effects remain in play until the owning player casts another upkeep spell or dismisses the spell. The owning player is defined as the player that resolved the spell."

_________________

No worries!


Indeed! Unless you're talking about a heroic skirmisher or a heroic unit, a lone hero caught alone and in the open by a full unit is in more than just a bit of trouble.


Not at all! I just want to make sure that you get the right information and see if there's a way that I can make the description clearer.


Any caster in the owning player's force. This is why the owning player portion is in bold [to differentiate it from the unit/caster that cast the spell]. All casters in a force are considered to be working together, and I didn't want players to have to deal with the bookkeeping of which caster had which spell in effect.


Ah... I think I may see where the confusion is being generated from! The portion that states 'The owning player is defined as the player that resolved the spell.' is there for situations and effects that are secondary to a bad things result.

For example, if [as my opponent] you are attempting to cast a barrier spell and get a bad things result, then I have the option to resolve the spell. Let's assume that I do. This would mean that only a caster in my army could perform the dismissal since, as I resolved the spell, I 'own' it. Make sense?

I'm open to any suggestions to make the section clearer!