agreed, 375 is a LOT for a support formation, and pretty cheap as core, especially when it unlocks support choices.... I'd be very tempted to build lists around several of those!

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Having played with and against similar changes, it does change the dynamic of the list a bit, in the sense that it allows for more defensive setups than what you currently can do.

The result is that competitive lists are more varied within SL.

I wouldn't say it "upsets" the dynamic in an unbalancing way. On the contrary, SL at 2k points really has only 2-3 viable all comers comps (with variants). With cheaper Artillery comps, you can add a couple comps to that number.

@Kyuss: So much the better! We would finally see artillery-centered SL armies. I dont have a problem with that.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

I'd say that Marines are twice as survivable as Guardsmen (2 hits to kill vs 1 hit). That makes Basilisks 25% more survivable than Manticores (1.5 hits vs 1.2 hits)...

The chance of making the save isn't very useful. Would you say that Terminators are only 50% more survivable than normal Marines? (75% chance of save vs 50% chance)

perhaps..... I don't think they'll be particularly fun to face (or play) though.....



well said

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Why not? Barans are fun. Squats are fun. Dactylis based Tyranids are fun. etc.

Your statement is like saying that the artillery company is purposefully not viable so that people dont play it, and therefore we shouldnt make it viable.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

Smaller formation size for Artillery Company is rather intriquing change. It looks interesting. Currently the infantry company (250) is the cheap core formation to boost support slots. The next step is mech inf coy. (400)
According to the suggested size and cost from Kyrt (6 Basilisk for 375) is somewhere beetween the two. (Usually Inf Coy gets something in a form of single hydra [+50] or fire support [+100] or at least I tend to bring them.)
I think it's worth the try.

Bombard is bombard. Better for taking out garrisoning / advancing footslogging infantry. Other than that it is certainly inferior compared to manticore, since the two are very similar, and only have different ability, and that's all.
It's okay if it gets reduced cost.

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can't speak for squats or nids, but Barans are dull... REALLY dull both to play and play against, which is why the Krieg list was developed as a much more aggressive siege army



actually it really isnt, my statement is saying that spamming large quantities of anything in general makes the game mono-dimensional and boring

I would love the artillery company to be viable, I've got 12 painted basilisks that I've never used more than 6 of.... I think dropping it to 6 models is not a bad idea, but the pricing of said formation needs to be very carefully balanced, also with guard who are typically paying 450+ points to unlock a pair of support choices and are established and balanced that way, introducing a sub-400 point formation may lead to powerful and broken builds which were hitherto un-viable.....

I can see an army with 3 lots of 6 manticores, each guarded by a bunch of overwatching hydras and sentinels being about as fun as a dentist visit to face

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Agreed

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Oh for pricing, I fully agree that 375 for 6 basilisks is too cheap. I had suggested 400.

And 6 Manticores should be 450 (or 400 also, but manticores would lose disrupt).

At 400 pts. for 6 basilisks, you would have to choose between that and 13 Guard infantry stands + 7 Chimeras (!). What would be your standard pick out of the box?

Also, it stems from your argument that the fact you are using EUK scout screen rules makes Artillery comps less vulnerable to air assaults than what the rest of the world plays with.

The list setup you mentioned would get slaughtered by a marine air assault force anywhere else in the world.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

yeah which highlights my point......

that kind of list would also blast the crap out of some builds of eldar, tyranids and orks.... it's very binary in terms of win-big lose-big, vulnerable against some lists, powerful against others..... if that was the game I wanted to play, I'd just play rock-paper-scissors and save myself a tonne of money....

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I think you are theory crafting too much.

Having played against such formations, they are useful in that they allow more flexibility in list design, and that's it.

It does not allow a stressed army list to do anything SL cannot already do.

A bunch of infantry companies with Hydras and Fire support with full artillery/Hydra/Sentinel support choices can already do what you proposed and better.

To stress my point: what can 6 Basilisks do at 400 points that 3 manticores at 250 cannot do, except bring some resilience and army flexibility?

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

The support slots angle is definitely a concern, and it will certainly change the dyanmic of the list, though I wouldn't use the word upset yet.

Maybe it could be made slightly more expensive to incorporate a premium for the support slots, I hadn't really factored that in. But to echo Lordotmilk, remember the list already has company choices at 250 and 400 points, and they are both viable formations suitable for a specific play style. Mech inf are good for attacking lists, inf coys are good blitz guards etc. You still need to protect an arty coy with flak too. I think the objection here is mainly one of having unrestricted access to artillery, which is really an objection to having a viable artillery company at all.

I can't see myself spamming arty companies at 400 a pop, I really think this is overthinking it. Every army has formations that they could spam at that cost and below, but it's rarely a good idea. And besides, I don't see anything wrong with 3 arty companies if that army has nothing to capture objectives with, weak BTS and no SC reroll. Artillery might seem scary but you have to think of what is not in that army too. Finally, yes it might be (subjectively) boring to play with and against such a list, but that is up to the player. The steel legion list is not the Baran list, and I don't see anything wrong with letting the player choose how to play it. A steel legion list spamming infantry companies would be equally (or more) boring to play against but nobody wants to do it.

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For the Steel Legion probably the easiest way to fix a bassi artillery company is to play with price and allow up to 10 of them (dealing with the F'd up BP table issues). I actually don't think Manticores should be a core full sized formation but instead be limited to a Support Formation and you're probably OK.

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