In my experience, falcon troupes are taken in order to get access to 2 firestorms. Also, Falcons are more useful against a broader range of opponents than Fire Prisms are. Therefore, I believe that the numbers given by Spectrar Ghost are a good/educated guess.

That's not to say that Fire Prisms aren't awesome, they are, it's just that shooting doesn't win EA games, at least not for the Eldar. The only exception to that is AA shooting, which is why it is the firestorms that make the falcon troupe useful.

As for what the fluff says, I'm not sure there is much to indicate one way or the other. Certainly it seems like the Fire Prism is less common than falcons or wave serpents, but more common than any of the other tank variants. Of course, that probably has more to do with the historic availablity of the various tank models and how useful they were in the various game systems.

I can't recall ever seeing any fluff that addresses relative rarity of Eldar Grav Tank variants. I'd say that wouldn't make it that rare though - about one in five tanks in an EoV formation would be a Fire Prism. Compare that to 1/10 (in game) or 1/50 or so (fluff) for Vindicators.

I just know someones gonna call me on it, so yes, I realize that my numbers don't add up to 100%. They should probably have been 70/20/5/5 instead.

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SG

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We have been playing with the new BT list for a year now and I thought I would post what comes out of our games.


Globally the changes have been very well received by Eldar players and opponents.

For some more detail:

- Howling Banshees still have to make an appearance, despite their attractive attack. People find they would rather use Fire Dragons for a similar and easier to use effect.

- Scorpion SHT: It is generally considered OTT, and thus rarely fielded in our mostly friendly games. 3x 2+ MA eats a lot of things for breakfast.

- SHT's discount for multiples is a very rarely seen option. When used, it is to field several Scorpions as a BTS.

- Fire prisms: they are regularly fielded in singletons within a Falcon formation and considered a good upgrade to the formation.

- Phantom Titan Pulsar: Opinions are mixed. Some think the change OTT (mainly RA army players, like Minervans or AMTL), others think the change balanced. For sure, Phantom Titans with dual pulsars are fielded more regularly, definitely moreso than the Gauntlet version, but perhaps that is due to the fact ppl field Warlocks for assaults.

- Cobras are still never seen.

Please note these comments come from about 30-40 games fielding Eldar by 3 different players in a 7 people playing group.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

Thanks for the feedback!

I've more or less given up on the Banshees at this point. They will be reverting to CC2+ without a special attack, which is not internally balanced, but does not require a new and frankly dubious special rule. It is the best of a bad lot of options, IMO.

Pulsars sound like they're right on the money if those groups are thg only ones complaining. As a sig on Warseer states: "Paper is broken, scissors are fine, says rock."

Are there any suggestions you could give for a middle of the road option for Scorpions?

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Going to say it again, Banshees don't need a cockamamie special rule when Infiltrator would do them nicely to get into CC and make then plenty attractive. Probably could due with a wee bit of a nerf on the CC value (which is over compensating for their perceived weaknesses). Scorps are fine as is in my opinion.

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I'd agree, except Warp Spiders do it better. It may be worth a shot though. These girls are a pain.

Quote for the day: Warp Spiders do it in a wormhole.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Wyches have a armor save in CC only. That's a lot of flavor for a special rule that breaks the mold somewhat.

Along that vein, how about a FS MW against only INF for the Banshees? Say CC4 or CC5+? It make them good against high armor infantry but not as good as SS against horde formations.

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Dave

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Well to be honest, I really think Infiltrating Banshees with either your special rule would make them played.

Alternatively, I had suggested all CC exarchs get MW on their EA. That with Infiltration on Banshees and CC 2+ could make them attractive. It also would somewhat solve the issue of the Avenger exarch, and perhaps make ppl play the Scorpion exarch.

Concerning the Scorpion, I would like the 3x 3+ option, and simply consider that Twin-linked pulsars give an extra shot instead of +1 to hit. That would affect the Vampire Hunter also (which is also a little under par atm imho).

If extended to all pulse weapons, I am not certain it would affect anything else as of yet.

If you are willing to consider any other changes, I would consider the following (just shooting some ideas):

- Upping Cobras to 3 BP each, and removing their missile launcher.

- Allowing for a 3-man War Walker formation at 100 points. Perhaps making the ranger formation 6-8 for 150 points.

- removing holo-fields benefit when last activation was not one of movement (limiting the cries of *cheese* when Fielding twin pulsars and revenants)

- reducing Phoenix bombers cost to 325 points, or increasing their BP weapon to 2 BP each.

- reintroducing 4+ save on motojets (its been ahwile since ive seen anything else than vypers on our tables. People need the 4+ save to survive assault initiations, which is what that formation is there for).

- doing something for BM management on the army. SS was too powerful, but BM management is a really big issue with the list, especially at larger point values. Allowing for the purchase of spirit stones or some such would really help.

Jetbikes - with their movement and especially their post-assault movement they were far too good with 4+ save

Rangers - no change needed IMO, they are already a great choice

Scorpions - If anything I've always heard them, and found them, to be if anything a sub-par choice just because Eldar have so many better AT options and better long range options. For them to be dominant and OTT I'd like to hear how much terrain you use and how you use terrain shadowing for pop-up

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I agree that Infiltrator would definitely be worth trying and returning them to CC3+ First strike in compensation.

Dont't forget that NetEA is using 3x MW2+ and reducing the cost of multiples to 200, though I agree that the questions on terrain are key.

@Steve54: Yes, we are using NetEA rules Scorpions with 3 x 2+ MA.

The high to-hit gives them ability to double and still break any small formation, or seriously damage any WE, while benefitting from surprise attacks.

We play with more terrain than what is suggested in the tournament scenario. Something like 40-50% of the table is covered with some terrain type or the other (including hills).

Concerning the Jetbikes, I can only say that the tests you are referring to sound like they date to the times of spirit stones and such. Jetbikes atm have no BM management, are fragile, get slaughtered in assaults, and dont shoot. When they are broken (which is inevitable), they never rally (5+).

Finally you completely missed the point I was raising concerning Rangers. The suggestion is to give a niche to War walkers (the 100 point slot), and limit the multiplication of 100 point options. Rangers are fine at 150 too.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

On Jetbikes, while I sympathise with your views, Steve's point is that you need to use them correctly.
Ideally the Eldar should only initiate an assault that they are confident of winning. Preferably they should do this with a view to initiating several assaults, using the consolidation move to move the victors into support position for the next assault. Try using Guardians in Wave Serpents to command a formation or two of jetbikes into the assault, placing the jetbikes behind the Wave serpents to reduce the amount of damage they receive. This way you will get two or more assaults out of the same formation (and leave a large hole in the opposing army).

Scorpions - for them to dominate like that then you are either using terrain wrong for popping up or your opponent is leaving stuff in the open.

Jetbikes - SS had nothing to do with it, it was the armor/ff/speed combined with after assault movement and triple retain. Assault a small formation then move and support another assault. I rarely see more than 1 vyper as eldar have so many shooting attacks. No reason why they should need a 5+ to rally as their movement should ensure you are never broken near an enemy unit. SS were irrelevant as they impacted shooting formations by removing that extra Bm or 3 unit/DC formations by allowing rallying to 0 BMs

War Walkers - a formation of 3 would be of absolutely no use

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I agree with dropping Phoenix bombers to 325. In the E-UK competitions, they are rarely used at 350 points, though I suspect this could well be that people adopt a particular play style that does not suit their use.

I agree that increasing the Cobra to 3BP should be tried (Note the E-UK have gone in a completely different direction). I would also like to try increasing the range to 45cm to make them slightly easier to use.

I have been thinking on multiple EoV, and while the reduction for multiples is welcome, I am not sure they will ever be used extensively because:-

• Doing so reduces activations which Eldar need due to their generally fragile nature.
• Other than Scorpions, the EoV do not scale well. Void Spinners and Cobras are limited by the way the way that the barrage rule work. And only Cobras and Storm Serpents have any chance of using similar tactics together.
• A formation of two EoV is generally as easy to break as a formation of one - to be resilient they need to be fielded as three EoV. Generally there are better ways of spending 650 points, though Scorpions with 3x MW2+ shots each are arguably more powerfull than two Revenants . . . hence I agree with LotM that they should be 3x MW3+ at most.
• Even with 200 points for multiples they risk becoming the BTS, and as such are more brittle than other formations. IMO Revenants 3+ holofield save together with greater movement more than offsets the larger DC and better shooting.