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Barrage Weapons and Titans

 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:09 pm 
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You know, thinking about it. Logically, if a barrage hits shields it shouldn't be hitting the titan at all. The shell/missile/whatever hits the shields and blows up, stripping 1-3 shields but the explosion already occurred away from the hull.

Not really a big deal, the oddness can be rationalized as necessary for game balance if need be, but its something you guys might want to consider.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:28 pm 
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ForgottenLore wrote:
You know, thinking about it. Logically, if a barrage hits shields it shouldn't be hitting the titan at all. The shell/missile/whatever hits the shields and blows up, stripping 1-3 shields but the explosion already occurred away from the hull.

Not really a big deal, the oddness can be rationalized as necessary for game balance if need be, but its something you guys might want to consider.


Hi!

Point taken. :)

What Bissler points out is the standard way the game mechanics work. Shields go down, excess hits go to hit location template.

I agree that in a logical sense your explanation is the correct one, however it may confuse most players whom are used to excess hits going directly to the titan.

It's one of those things were we "bow" to consistency rather than realism. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Now to throw something else into the mix.
Should this be applied to all template weapons?
And since this will be applied to attacks against big targets, do we affecting buildings in the same way?

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Mattman wrote:
Now to throw something else into the mix.
Should this be applied to all template weapons?
And since this will be applied to attacks against big targets, do we affecting buildings in the same way?

Matt


Hi!

I have been thinking of this and my answer is YES!

A template is a template (regardless of nature or origin) and buildings are as big as titans and praetorians (plus they save on 2d6!!).

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Might need to check the points on anything that fires a template with a decent save mod (like the quake cannon) as they will be a bit more effective now.


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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:26 pm 
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Mattman wrote:
Might need to check the points on anything that fires a template with a decent save mod (like the quake cannon) as they will be a bit more effective now.


Hi!

Go see the post on titan weapons I just updated here:

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=25678&start=30

I made it cost the same as the volcano cannon (100 points).

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Seems justified given the improvements to the template rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:49 pm 
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Should the number of hits caused vary a bit depending on the size of the template?

D3+1 for be larger template?

And what about the two flamer templates?

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:56 pm 
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ForgottenLore wrote:
Should the number of hits caused vary a bit depending on the size of the template?

D3+1 for be larger template?

And what about the two flamer templates?


Hi!

For simplicities sake I'd keep it a uniform d3 hits. At least for now. Once its tested, we may expand and detail it.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:21 am 
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I'm thinking that any artillery units which have a TSM of anything other than 0 should have their base cost increased by either 25 or 50 points. Probably 25 provided that we don't expand the 1D3 hits rule to anything further than Titans and buildings.

So far as the flamer template weapons go, to gain 1D3 hits against a Titan or building, I envisage the weapon having to be fired at a tangent higher than horizontal. This would mean that while the Titan/building took several hits, the amount of damage on the ground would be significantly reduced. I have a proposal to reflect such a situation;

If a weapon firing a flamer template wishes to concentrate fire upon a Titan or building, they may do so and inflict 1D3 hits. Due to the raised trajectory required to inflict such extensive damage on these targets, the weapons cause a lesser amount of damage on the ground, and units are hit only on a roll of 5+ rather than the usual 4+.

I'm hoping that everyone agrees that, if adopted, this trade-off rule would also mean we could ignore any points cost changes for flamer weapons/vehicles using flame template weapons.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:27 am 
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I think that a few playtests of the new barrage rule will be in order to ascertain just how much of an effect they will have. Squats and IG are the forces I think could be most adversely affected (positively from their point of view) and therefore will have to be closely monitored.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:44 am 
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What about flamer weapons on titans? They wouldn't need to mess around with trajectory.

In reality flamer template weapons will have little effect on titans as all bar and handful of units in all the army lists have them with a save mod so they can't knock down shields and are unlikely to get through armour. The few that do have a save mod are the Khorne Defiler, Tzeentch Fliers, Dark Eldar Haemonculus, Hellwurm Engine and Tyranid Titan acid spray (I did go through all the lists to check).
So I say don't bother with any further changes for flamer template weapons as we run risk of over loading the rules. Just keep it to the d3, normal to hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:51 am 
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Or maybe just not offer the D3 hits at all to flamer template weapons?

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:04 am 
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The Bissler wrote:
I'm thinking that any artillery units which have a TSM of anything other than 0 should have their base cost increased by either 25 or 50 points. Probably 25 provided that we don't expand the 1D3 hits rule to anything further than Titans and buildings.

So far as the flamer template weapons go, to gain 1D3 hits against a Titan or building, I envisage the weapon having to be fired at a tangent higher than horizontal. This would mean that while the Titan/building took several hits, the amount of damage on the ground would be significantly reduced. I have a proposal to reflect such a situation;

If a weapon firing a flamer template wishes to concentrate fire upon a Titan or building, they may do so and inflict 1D3 hits. Due to the raised trajectory required to inflict such extensive damage on these targets, the weapons cause a lesser amount of damage on the ground, and units are hit only on a roll of 5+ rather than the usual 4+.

I'm hoping that everyone agrees that, if adopted, this trade-off rule would also mean we could ignore any points cost changes for flamer weapons/vehicles using flame template weapons.


Hi!

I'd leave things the way they are for now. I view artillery as underpowered currently. So the boost won't skew things too badly. he 1d3 is just buildings and titans. Normal against anything else.

Flamers don't destroy buildings or effect them (unless you designate them as wooden, but that a house rule), but are useful against the occupants. No need for changes as they only change in regards to titans.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrage Weapons and Titans
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:05 am 
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Mattman wrote:
What about flamer weapons on titans? They wouldn't need to mess around with trajectory.

In reality flamer template weapons will have little effect on titans as all bar and handful of units in all the army lists have them with a save mod so they can't knock down shields and are unlikely to get through armour. The few that do have a save mod are the Khorne Defiler, Tzeentch Fliers, Dark Eldar Haemonculus, Hellwurm Engine and Tyranid Titan acid spray (I did go through all the lists to check).
So I say don't bother with any further changes for flamer template weapons as we run risk of over loading the rules. Just keep it to the d3, normal to hit.


Hi!

This is my take as well.

Primarch

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