I think choice.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Just a thought; the auto-BM removal style rule is getting very close to the original Eldar Spirit-Stone rule, which was ultimately deemed unfair and removed some time ago (and replaced in the UK by the +25 upgrade). The issue with Spirit Stones was that it was generic and unbalancing both because it was universal and also because the ability could not be targeted by the opponent.

The use of an upgrade seems more appropriate here, and for preference it seems more appropriate to base this on the addition of a character to the appropriate formations. So, why not charge x points for the addition of multiple characters, eg 50 points for 3x tech-priests. These would count as Leaders, so can remove a BM from their own formation. Paying +25 or +50 etc for a number of Tech-priests gives the most flexibility while staying within the generic cost increments.

Nice, i like that too!

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

simple and intuitive.

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I like this, though perhaps limiting it to a single BM from any formation within 5cm of the tech-priest. It's a unique and flavorful effect, I think.

choice is always better. Give the player control of what he does.



As you say, the 25 point upgrade isn't widely used. I would look to avoid this being an upgrade option. Either commisar style 1 per X points or it just simply works across all cataphractii formations.

I'm leaning to the second because we are talking about the AdMech, if anyone would send a tech priest or multiple tech priests out with the vehicles it's them. I don't think they'd be rationing them out.



I like the aspect of auto intermingling formations but the reward just doesn't fit the risk. One extra BM for the possibility of both formations breaking from losing an assault. It's far more likely due to the generally poor AV skill.

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-Vaaish

fluffy though.

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My shifting projects

Got distracted and when I had finished editing a lot of replies had happened
While I quite like the 'alternative' of allowing Tech-priests to upgrade other formations, this is ultimately a 'special rule' which probably should be avoided, so I agree with Vaaish that this not really desirable.

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea of treating Tech-Priests like a cross between Commissars and Chaos Daemons. Make this is a separate entry in the list and elsewhere you define the Tech Priest character as being a Leader.

Ginger, that's the exact thing I think we should avoid because such an upgrade will rarely be taken and at that point it really doesn't do anything to make the list more characterful. It needs to be integrated and mandatory for it to be used. Player choice should come into play with distribution should it be similar to the commisars.

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-Vaaish

Hmm, I misread your earlier post slightly. Treating Tech-Priests like commissars to be scattered across the relevant formations would work as it is a mechanic that is known and understood from the IG list. However, I am less sure about integrating it in this fashion in a list that I thought was relatively stable.

The point being that while more characterful, having large amounts of BM removal is likely to change the way the list plays. There is also the question of how many to add - do you envisage 1 per 500 points, or 6x per 3K army?

Just so we are on the same page, the rule we are discussing only affects the experimental cataphractii list in the first post of this thread. The titan legions and skitarii list would not be changed.

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-Vaaish

Sounds good, (though you could perhaps consider adding one or two as upgrades to appropriate formations in those lists ).

I presume the list still uses SR 2+ and Init 2+ and the cost of these formations means a lower activation list (8-9 formations at 3K). Given these suppositions the question still stands, how many Tech-Priests were you thinking of adding, and what restrictions would apply to their positioning? For example, I presume they would not be added to Allies (or at least not to Skitarii allies). And presumably there would not be commissars as well as these Tech-priests?

Indeed, this line of thought raises the question, what is the difference between Tech-Priests and Commissars, why not just add Commissars?

That's correct.



I think that it very much depends on how we go with this whether we do a set number. I want something that helps ease the BM situation on a force composed of smaller, expensive formations so they don't end up suppressed and broken too easily. Both of the core formations lose two units and the formation break. Even the loss of one unit puts the formation under 50% effectiveness due to BM suppression.

That was the impetus for allowing the cataphractii to ignore rally modifiers and perhaps even allow a larger BM reduction from time to time.



To keep from dealing with allies or measuring with units from other formations, I think the rule should apply on a per formation basis not a distance from x unit.



a commissar would never show up in an admech list. I just don't see the AdMech allowing it to happen so regardless if they are functionally equivalent they'd still be named differently.

My preference would just be a simple rule that says cataphracii formations are blessed by adepts of the omnissiah and ignore modifiers to rally in the in end phase. Additionally on a roll of 6 to rally, all blast markers are removed.

No positioning, no measuring, no worries about allies.

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-Vaaish

Can't you just include a 25 point techpriest character which has FF, EA+1 (overcharged weapons) and leadership?

If you don't like the FF EA give it an extra shooting attack. Overcharged weapons, 30cm MW5+ as a suggestion.

Neither of those would really be much in the way of incentive to use the techpriest. I'm really pretty firm that the Blessings rule is not an upgrade option but either built in as part of the army or like commissars in that a certain number are available for assignment per X points.

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-Vaaish