The only really pressing issue with the current approved list is the Chaos Altar / Hydra issue, everything else can be easily proxied / ignored.

I would be quite happy with the current list being left as it is, while these other alternative lists get developed by those that want them.

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Sounds great, thanks Steve!

To throw a possible Altar fix into the pot perhaps Altars could say in their notes that they may garrison despite being War Engines OR they have reinforced armour. They could still do with a points drop as well but that would allow a lighter Altar to start closer to the enemy.

Hopefully the Cultist list will build upon the existing LaTD list and largely be the same and be a clear variant of it, rather than starting from scratch. We already have a number of other more different Cultists lists. My suggestions: keep all the Daemon Engines as they are, but strip out all Hydras, Chimera, Sentinels, ect. These can be replaced with Land Transporter variants and ramshackle versions. Hopefully allow 2 support per core to allow more daemon engines to be fielded. I hope you provide the option of adding up to +2 Chaos Spawn to a formation rather than 1 (and compared to the 3 possible in the Daemon World list) as Spawn are very chaotic and provide cool conversion opportunities, also consider using the cheaper/better daemon rules from the current Black Legion list.

I might be interested in playtesting the cultist or LaTD list, but it'd have to be online via Tabletop or Vassal as I don't have appropriate models this side of the world.

I am slightly concerned that there will be a lot of fixing things that no one wants fixed. What is th nature of the problem? That it is not a competitive list in e.g. tournaments? Or that it subjectively feels a bit messy? For me, competitiveness is not an issue, character is all. About cultist specific units, I suppose you intend to create shooty covens, melee covens, mobile covens, and such like under their own specific headings?

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Nitpicks Knapsack (Scratchbuilding and 3D designing and printing and painting)

Hopefully not? I don't see any need for multiple coven types like that.

A ramshackle cultist AA vehicle mounted on a Land Transporter would be one new unit. Some manner of scout formation would be another.

It's a tournament list (as are all lists) so the fact that its massively under represented in tournaments is a problem. If you don't care about competitiveness then ignore the points cost and list structure entirely; they're there purely to give balanced 2-5k grand tournament scenario armies.


I can't see any reason to sun divide the core coven formation; they're fine as they are with the obvious removal of Imperial Guard units. The only other change I'd consider making at this point is the possible addition of a light vehicle "technical" with a single 30cm ap6+/at6+/aa6+ to fit in with the ramshackle nature of the covens.



Quickedit: I am also very much in favor of the revised daemon rules from the Black Legion list and would propose rolling them into this new list.

How? 6mm infantry is available from loads of places, daemon engines are regularily on ebay

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Side note on mini availability/cost for LaTD: currently prices for many daemon engines are very low compared to what they have been. Silver towers are now 'only' £5–10 each, used to be over £20 each at one point, questors are down to £15. Additionally, everything epic is OOP now, official 'new' model availability for every single army is 0.

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AFK with real life, still checking PMs

The one week I decide not to be here, and this issue comes up again.

For what it's worth, I'm glad that it was decided not to go down the route of trying to pull the LatD army list apart yet again. There's nothing wrong with its structure, and it's the only Chaos list I would ever feel comfortable playing in EA, so please just leave it alone. If you want alternative lists, different list structures, split lists, and all the rest of it, then please make new ones which have nothing to do with LatD.

If some points costs or internal balance issues need to be looked at, then fair enough, although, like Hena, I can't see that there are many, if any, of those.

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Balancing a tournament list around model availability, especially for An out of production and unsupported game, is such a bad idea. Daemon engines haven't been available for a couple decades and I don't think human light vehicle transports have ever been available. Would you suggest removing them from LatD to help people field lists easier?

So. I suppose discussions like these are what moves things around here? In the non official highly preliminary popular vote, I go for the minor balance fixes, such as those suggested by various in people here, if anything at all needs to be done, that is. It probably goes without saying, but I suppose that all holding opinions actually own or are in the process of putting together a LatD army?

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Nitpicks Knapsack (Scratchbuilding and 3D designing and printing and painting)

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion