I do find it funny someone says "these are crap can we change them to 1+" and another says "these are too cheap and/or too powerful can we change them?"

Are you taking into account no jump packs on the BCs...? You can do all those things but once they're down they're foot infantry and 2+ initiative. They become problematic once they take BMs too. Massed BC assaults suffer from not being able to get them all base to base due to spacing in an assault and no infiltrate. Putting them in fliers also costs you more than standard marines.


Well for starters you can't take them in Drop Pods, THs or LCs.... They are not written into those transport data specifically to counter this idea. I'd actually play test them first before jumping to the conclusion "they're very good for 150." My accounts of them show them to be hit or miss.

Mate,

I would second Dobbsy's point, once out of the TH, it's a slog until you can get back into an engage action. I have been lucky in games. By luck I chose my targets well and encouraged my opponent to think it was an easy kill. You are paying to use that transport and that prohibits it being a spam tactic.

I have never used the wolves so I cannot comment on the unit.

Cheers
Aaron

Yep, I'm considering the lack of Jump Packs and poor initiative. 200 for 6 or 250 for 8 is still much to too cheap for transported marines.


Not really? The flyer costs slightly more but the Marines cost significantly less. 8 Blood Claws in a Thunderhawk costs 475 while 8 Assault Marines in a Thunderhawk costs 550.

There's the disadvantage of the initiative and lack of jump packs. But in a massed air assault list the Wolves could get more attacks and boots on the ground than regular marines. They're slower on the ground but very hard to break being 8 strong marines and more likely to outnumber opponents if assaulted. I guess I'll have to try and abuse them and see.

Forget my concern about the Wolves if they can't be transported, they look fine in that case. You might want to be more specific in the army list to avoid the confusion though. The Landing Craft says may transport Space Wolves infantry and the wolves are infantry in the Space Wolves list so I assumed they were allowed.

You never replied to my question about the Long Fangs?

Assault Marine - better initiative(C&C); jump packs (faster across the table - especially helpful when marching to capture objectives); better air assault deployment - roughly 43 points each
Blood Claw - lesser effect on all the above and the lesser tactical choice due to forced consolidation - roughly 33 points each.

If anything, the upgrade could cost more (+75points) but I seriously haven't seen that much call for it from my own games or other players yet.


Well 8 Assault Marines should cost you more. They give you an extra activation once down, they engage more easily given the 15cm deployment and are more easily controlled and have a 10cm counter-charge move. 8 Assault Marines in an Air Assault engagement is the same number of BCs in terms of outnumbering. As you may find when you play them, a 5cm deployment from a TH can make it difficult to base up 8 enemy units unless your opponent is not thinking about this in advance. That often leaves you with a few ineffectual units. Not ideal.

Just to be clear, I don't cost something based purely on what it will do in its first engagement. I also take into account what they will do on the table once this has happened - particularly when you don't transport them in a TH.


Ahh sorry about that. It's still a possibility. I haven't had chance to play with the different stats yet so haven't formed a concrete view to change. Personally, as they stand they're Ok as I'm not bothered by pedantics about weapon types too much and they haven't proven OTT. If a majority would prefer them changed we can, but honestly I don't see too much issue with them and for such a small change I wonder if it's really necessary to invest a whole year over a single unit's stat line.

Thanks for the response. I've spotted a typo by the way - presumably the army shouldn't field Blood Angels Razorbacks?

I am unlikely to ever play the list, but I think the suggestion re Long Fangs is an excellent one. Characterful, powerful, but not to powerful.

Make of this what you will.

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The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

Just a quick question: are the Fenris wolves meant to benefit from ATSKNF?

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

Yep. I've not encountered any issues with it and because you can put a Hero with them it's sort of awkward without it when you do. It's also much easier than having one formation in the whole army that doesn't have it.

"There are no wolves on Fenris" (per the Black Library novels).

It's implied the Fenrisian Wolves that fight with the army used to be Space Wolves themselves, with the part wolf genetics all Fenrisians have (genetic tinkering by the original colonists on themselves to survive on such a harsh world) having taken over. As such it's reasonable for them to still have ATSHNF.

LOL this too.