Thanks Primarch, very helpful! Likewise Mattman, I couldn't see it for looking at it (although the bloodrage of Khorne is one of the more disappointing rewards)!

Was I right about the Cannon of Khorne as well, cannot First Fire?

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

I would not say that! Played on a Khorne Berserker detachment in rhinos, you can reach a position up to 85cm away from your start point (50cm rhino charge + 45cm berserker charge - 10cm disembarking penalty)...Make them rush, capture an objective inside a nice cover deep in your opponent side and wait for close combat. With the rage, Khorne berserkers will roll 3D6+6 in close combat (+extra bonus for being in cover)...Except Eldar scorpions, not many troops will be able to defeat them in cc. Your opponent can not ignore them and all his troops trying to rip them will not be focused on your daemon engines (that will be probably destroyed during first turn FF segment if they are not hidden)...

How delighted am I that I made such an ill-informed comment?! I had been thinking "even 45cm isn't enough" for the Bezerkers because I was going to throw the standard Khorne Marines into the Rhinos (I've only got 2 squadrons of Rhinos)! Duh! Now I know what to do with that card! Cheers Scream!

PS Please forgive my ignorance of Chaos, I'm still finding my feet as this is my battle #4 playing them. I feel like an Epic rookie all over again...

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

Regarding your question regarding Cannons of Khorne, it would appear that they cannot be given first fire orders, you are correct. In Space Marine, they, unlike the other Daemon Engines of Khorne could be given first fire orders, and I didn't realise that the rule had changed.

I'm not convinced that they're really worth taking at all if they have to be on advanced orders all the time.

_________________

Yes, I'm not too impressed with that one, think as they are artillery and already have a weakness with the 1 in 6 chance of destruction they should be freed of the shackles of standard Khorne Daemon Engine rules. Anyhoo, I'll let you know how I get on!

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

At last, I've scored a victory for Chaos!!!

At the end of turn 2 it finished Chaos 49VPs to the Marines/IG 32. With two more companies on the brink the Marines had no prospect of winning so threw in the towel.

Scream's tactic with the Beserkers worked brilliantly, breaking an IG Predator company immediately in turn one. With those out of the way, the Marine's firepower was drastically weakened, allowing my Daemon Engines to survive a lot longer. Other than that, there was a ridiculous amount of close combat - Deathwing and Assault companies getting thrown in against Minotaurs, Trolls and Bloodletters. Carnage!!

Other highlights (from a Chaos point of view) included:

Juggers bringing down a Warhound in close combat. Yes, 4 out of 5 got fried but they get to complete their charge and can carry out close combat. Using tentacles, the Warhound only had a +1, the first of five combats was succesful and having selected a head hit, I rolled and scored a 6! It was only 2 VPs, and the Marines gained the same number of points for breaking the Juggers but still I was pleased to bring one of those Warhounds down.

Telekinesis allowed me to throw one of my hellhounds on to an objective that the Marines thought they had captured!

Not one Chaos card played to save Greater Demons! All cards played were used to boost CAF, and in one amusing moment, Tower of Skulls were able to pop up and rain hell down on Terminators who thought they were safe behind a building!

Really good fun, thanks again to all for the helpful tips and comments!

PS You can see battle pics here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24959

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

I'm very impressed, and pleased, well played .

I've never managed to beat an alliance of Space Marines, and Imperial Guard, with my Chaos army. The Artillery Company always used to ruin my day before I could get enough units into close combat. I'm pleased that you were able to tip the odds in favour of Chaos by getting those critical units into base contact.

I'm impressed you didn't have to use any Chaos cards to save your Daemons. I've never been in such a fortunate position. How did you manage it?

_________________

As Cilla Black might say; "with a lorra lorra luck"! The Beserkers trashing the Predators before they even got a chance to fire in Turn 1 was a lot to do with it, with the Reaver mopping up a few more. With Land Raiders unable to fire because they were dropping off Terminators, the only thing that could threaten the Lord of Battles in Turn 1 was the Leviathan which missed most of its shots and the one that hit I was fortunate enough to roll a save on the head head. For Angron and the Bloodthirster, I kept them much out of the way, defending deep objectives at either end of the board. The Marines/IG had nothing that could see them let alone hit them. I was fortunate not to be up against any artilery.

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

Artillery is the bane of Chaos, so I agree that you were fortunate not to face any, but that doesn't take away from your victory. Getting the Berzerkers into combat on turn one seems to have been the key, and it seems that I was right that early close combat would play into your hands.

My Lord of Battles has never survived a single game. Over the last 20 years it has had its wheel blown off more times than I count, gone bezerk, exploded spectacularly, and killed almost nothing in return. I kept on using it though, as I loved the model, but its track record in my army is second only to the Banelord in terms of dismal failure.

_________________

I was also fortunate that the Marine/IG player didn't take more vehicles. The fullout assault by the Terminators and Assault Companies on my half of the board played into my strengths. A more defensive set up by the Marines/IG would have made things much more difficult. Don't get me wrong though, I did not feel comfortable at any point until the close combat was resolved at the end of turn 2. At the end of turn 1 the score was 40 VPs to Marines, and only 11 VPs to Chaos!

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

Chaos is almost never ahead at the end of turn one, but you're right, that was quite a big gap. Definitely well played to pull it back from there.

_________________

Khorne army is usually in pain at turn 1 due to the rule "never on First Fire"...

When advance fire segment is reached in turn 1: daemon engines are often dead before being able to shhot or you have charged and can not fire or you have advance and found a cover At 300 points for 3, they are very interesting for VP and a priority target for your opponent (he surely doesn't want to see them getting the bonus).

About using the card to make the tower of skulls pop-uping, you could not have done this because you can't use chaos reward cards on non organic units (written at the end of chaos reward cards explanation).

Yes, I've been very disappointed in general by the daemon engines, and with their limited range for firing, you really have to charge them 1st turn (maybe my opponents don't play aggresively enough and charge units into firing range for me) and then advance in the 2nd turn (as you can't FF). It's horrendous that you have to wait until advance phase of turn 2 to really start getting some use out of them. Don't even start me on playing them against Eldar. When you consider that they are pricier than a Land Raider squadron, they aren't that attractive an option, other than the miniatures which I love.



I'm using the old Chaos cards. Because the Telekinesis card specifically stated that it could be played on "any model except a Titan", I assumed that the Chaos cards could be played on anything. You live and learn - but there was no conscious decision to cheat!

Meantime, I've just realised I owe a big apology to Mattman for hijacking your thread! Sorry!

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

Ask a moderator to do a thread split from your post about your Khorne army list onwards. That would solve the problem.

Regarding the Daemon Engines, I don't have an issue with them as a concept, or in terms of cost, because when they work for you, they're deadly. You need other targets to draw fire away from them to get them to work though. Console yourself that if they are destroyed, other units are getting away with taking less damage.

_________________