had a 3,000pt game vs Onyx's Iron Warriors. Close affair with 2-1 win to the Squats (Take & Hold + BTS vs Take & Hold.

landmark game for me cause i actually managed to kill his Siegelord titan - first time managing to kill something the size of a warlord. Onyx was very unlucky with key rallies not passing (including the siegelord)..i was lucky that when the Hellfury cannon hit the Siegelord i rolled 6 for number of hits.

decided against using tarantulas with scout as wanted another go with them as they are in the list...not a fan of them as a scout unit but in generally i do like the firepower they kick out...

one thing was the special rule about limited move when breaking...the special rule states when breaking u can only make a single move up to a maximum of 15cm...this really is a pain for high movement units like the bikers and iron eagles/hawks...would it not be more reasonable to say when breaking that unit gets to move a single move (whatever its maximum)...what do others feel about the rule?

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

Sounds a good game (apart from the failed rallies), what forces did you use/face?

I have also had a hard time getting around the single 15cm fall back rule. I can say that I got it wrong for my first couple of games. I agree that it is a real pain of a rule, but with the plus side of the rally roll I don't think that the rule warrants changing at the moment.

my force was as follows:

Warrior Brotherhood
+ Warlord (upg to Grand Warlord)
+ Rhinos

Berserker Brotherhood
+ Berserkers
+ Rhinos

Colossus
+ Living Ancestor

Cyclops

Bikers with 3 trikes

Bikers with 3 Trikes

Iron Eagles
+ Iron Hawk

Iron Eagles
+ Iron Hawk

Tarantulas

Tarantulas

excuse the bad memory, but i think the IW had:
Siegelord

Decimator

Defilers

Chosen Marines

Daemonic Artillery

Marine Company x 2

Dreadnought formation (carried in the Siegelord assault arm)

Terminators
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have to apologize to Onyx (will do that face to face on Sunday) as i forgot about the 15cm when breaking rule for the first half of the game - really need to brush up on my list rules before games and inform my opponents of them to be fair - and by telling them reminding myself as well...

few things from the game:

formation of Iron Eagles surrounding the WE is a nice screen as they are skimmers so those CC MW attacks from termies dont factor into combat...although i was silly with deploying both WE, tarantula formation and Iron Eagle screen as a big blob - all 4 formations got hit in the opening barrage from the garrisoned daemonic artillery (lucky for me only the tarantulas were broken after losing 3 units, others just copped blast markers/lost shields)....

keeping the bikers formations together so that the Commander ability of the Guildmaster can bring both formations into an engagement is a treat, sadly for me Onyx worked that out very quickly (too good a player for so obvious a trick) and denied me the chance to use it...

Colossus & Cyclops working together are quite nasty...also decided rather use the missiles on each all at once instead of piecemeal firing...getting lots BP in one big shot seems more effective...

also it was a game with some great rolling from both of us...we both only failed 1 activation all game (completely unlike my other games with Squats) and made ridiculous numbers of saves!

----

given the breaking movement issue some more thought and i guess the +1 to rally has to have some sort of negative to balance it out...

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

Interesting. Given the game you had, what kind of effect would a change to the Cyclops missiles have had?

The +1 to rally is definitely the flip side to the movement restriction. The idea behind the Squats being stubborn is that they don't want to retreat from a fight. They stubbornly withdraw just enough to regroup before plowing back into the battle. They rally (perhaps ignorantly) in the face of danger. Like in real life, being stubborn can sometimes be a good quality, but usually it just means your a blooming fool.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I would like to echo this question as well and add did you use the (Cyclops) barrage against the war engines or infantry?

i actually like the missiles on the Cyclops...it gives u an option to reach and touch the enemy when they hide the Hellfury worthy targets...first turn i couldnt reach any tasty targets with the hellfury so used the missiles to barrage the enemy formation...

if the cyclops didnt have the missiles then it would have been unable to do anything much in the first turn or would have had to move out of its anti-termie protection (the way i normally roll activations i wasnt gonna risk moving it and then the iron eagles failing and this having...Onyx delayed termie appearance for opportune moment and i had to make sure he didnt get a free hit on a WE with those evil termies...playing SM i know how devastating termies can be...also Onyx kept his distance from the Cyclops to try to neutralise it in the early turns...

if the cyclops didnt have missiles then ur encouraged to move it forward to engage the enemy and against certain armies that can be a very bad idea, especially without a lovely scout screen to keep pesky teleporters and air assaut units at bay (our local scene has an abundance of these so always something i consider when list building)...the ability to sit back to deliver a bombardment while letting an enemy advance into range is a nice thing...i like the multi-role nature of the Squat WE...

if the missiles were no longer 1 shot but could be fired each turn then it would need a serious rethink of the output of the missiles or the cost of the WE...

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

Well, the suggestion (based on Tiny-Tim's ideas) was to keep the missiles on the Cyclops indirect, but have them be AT2+ one-shots. Something akin to what IG Vultures have. So you would have still been able to fire the missiles (and even use the spotter rule had you been able to work that out), but you would have been limited to AT targets.

So, how would that have affected your game?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

the AT2+ would have been ok as the formations within range were all AV...and it may have made killing the siegelord relatively easy...once i stripped the shields with other formations then the hellfury and that set up of missiles would have probably killed the siegelord in 1 turn of fire...that seems a bit too much...

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

Ever matched up against a formation of Vultures? 8 x AT2+ firing 120cm.

The change might give me a good excuse to bump the Cyclops up again, this time to 550.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Hi all,

I'll be playing with this list against Eldar (3500pts) tomorrow and will be giving you a batrep and my thoughts.

I've not been very active on this board but I've been playing Epic for more than 20 years now.
Squats was my first army but I haven't played them since Epic 40k was released. I've played chaos in Epic 40k and mostly LatD in Armageddon, though I also have a 6000+ pt Imperial fists Space Marine army and can also field my Latd as Legion of Steel or Minervans.

I like a lot of this list cause it seems to reflect the original units pretty well. I'm keen to try it all out.
My approach to rules and stats for units is KISS and stick with the character and fluff.
Having said that I can be stubborn as a squat defending my views or ideas

Cheers Warlord Engmir

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Chaos LatD
Squats
Imperial fists
Steel Legion
Black Legion

Engmir, I am glad that the list is drawing out all the old school players. That was the intent all along. I am looking forward to seeing how things go and getting you candid feedback.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

i have felt the wrath of the Vultures several times...but i dont find them as intimidating as the stats suggest...especially if u get to go first and bury them under a barrage as the vultures are fragile...

with the change to AT2+ it does make the Cyclops a WE/SHT killer but not sure the list needs a pure WE/SHT killer...maybe the next game i will test the AT2+ option...

_________________
May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

You can metagame the experience. Play them as they are stat'd now, but then stop and say "What if" and record the difference.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

if had the AT2+ missiles in the last game then the Siegelord would probably died in turn 2, not turn 3 and the dreads in its assault arm would not have survived the experience...and with the Siegelord dead then it would have meant the Decimator would have been under threat as it no longer had its Siegelord shield...this may have changed the end result to a possible 3-1 win for the Squats as i would have possibly been able to claim his Blitz as i could have hammered the defilers that protected it with the colossus and possibly broken them and then sent iron eagle unit or survivors of a biker formation to sit on his blitz...

although if Onyx knew up front about the missiles being AT2+ he would have played differently...

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

Thank you for posting Frosthammer, good insights.

We have a 3k tourney coming up and one ATML list is defenitely in play, so 2 WE could be an option, although I like the Overlords a lot.