Sonext round:

Dark Angels Land Speeder Vengeance
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Light Vehicle 35cm 4+ 6+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+
Plasma Storm Battery 30cm AP3+/AT4+ Slow-firing

Notes: Skimmer

Dark Angels Land Speeder Darkshroud
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Light Vehicle 35cm 4+ 6+ 5+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Assault Cannon 30cm AP5+/AT5+

Notes: Inspiring,Invulnerable Save, Skimmer, Scout

Dark Angels Ravenwing Darktalon
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Aircraft Fighter 5+ n/a n/a
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Hurricane Bolters 15cm 2 x AP4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Rift Cannon 15cm AP5+ Disrupt Fixed Forward Arc

OR

Dark Angels Ravenwing Darktalon
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 35cm 5+ 6+ 3+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Hurricane Bolters (15cm) Small Arms Extra-Attack (+1)
Rift Cannon 15cm AP5+ Disrupt

Notes: Skimmer

Dark Angels Nephilim Jetfighter
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Aircraft Fighter 5+ n/a n/a
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Avenger Mega-bolter 45cm 2 x AP5+/AT6+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Twin heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Darksword Missiles 30cm AT4+/AA4+ Fixed Forward Arc

Dark Angels Ravenwing Black Knight
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Infantry 35cm 4+ 3+ 3+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Plasma Talons (15cm) SmallArms -
Corvus Hammers (base contact) Assault Weapons -

Notes: Scout, Teleport Homer

Dark Angels Deathwing Knight
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Infantry 15cm 4+ 2+ -
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Maces of Absolution (base contact) Assault Weapons Macro-weapon, Extra Attack (+1)

Notes: Fearless, Invulnerable Save, Reinforced Armour, Teleport, Thick Rear Armour

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Is the Darkshroud really necessary?

Not sure about the Avenger mega-bolter. Is it an aircraft version of the Warhound MB?

I'd reduce the Darksword missiles to AA5+ and one shot if they all fire at once.

TBH, is there really a need for 2 aircraft? I think the Darktalon could go to Skimmer as it really isn't as good at ground attack compared with the Nephilim. I mean why would you take the DT over the Neph.?

The Black Knight is kinda superfluous really.

Are DW Knights necessary given there's already Assault Termies?

@Darksword: Well it seems to be a new iconic vehicle of the Ravenwing.

Avenger Mega-bolter: No it isn't. Avenger- MB has 48" Ap4 and 5 shots, Vulcan-MB has 60" Ap3 15 shots and better armour penetration. If anything then the Avenger-MB is an underpowered Autocannon with almost triple the shots.

@Darkswords: The Thunderbolt can be armed with several Hellstrike Missiles, still it has only one attack with it in Epic. Same i see for the Darkshroud Missiles. A Single Darhshroud Missile would have AT6+

@2 aircrafts: I have no problem with the Darktalon becoming a Skimmer. This is why i proposed stats for both versions.

@Black Knights: Don't care. They are elite bikers. I could give MW to the Plasma Talons or an EA IF necessary. Hard to see an optical distinction between regular Bikes anyway

@DW Knights: They are identical to Assault Terminators. Just another fluffy name.

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You made the Knights Fearless. That is a substantial difference.

Also, the Aircraft stats are over the top in my opinion. The missiles should have no AA as no aircraft that I can think of has AA missiles atm.

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Well Dearhwing Knights are Deathwing members....

@Missiles: Fluff says they are mainly used against aircrafts and light vehicles. But they don't have Skyfire which means they hit Aircrafts only on a 6 instead of regaular to-hit roll. So if you want you can drop the AA stat.

For comparision
Thunderhawk can be armed with 4 Hellstrike Missiles which have Range Unlimited, Strength 8 and Ordnance.
The Nephilim can be armed with 6 Darksword Missiles which have Range 36" and Strength 6.

I think the differences even out so that both can have the same stats (1 x 30cm AT4+).

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Agreed. Needs a balance in price I expect.


Meaningless rubbish. One it's not correct but two, who cares if it is a missile vs another weapon system. The only thing important is stats (range, use, notes, etc), not what the system is called in the description.

Note: I am not debating whether it is appropriately priced or OTT. Just that an AA weapon being called a "missile" doesn't matter one bit.

I mean we could call it, "mega-bollocks neutron emitter super death launcher rARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" for all we should care.

Now if you ask me about this I'd worry about range on that beast more. I'd state 15cm tops but that's just me

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3x AA weaps on a fighter is unprecedented.

1+ Init on Aircraft is unprecedented.

I think they should have 2+ init, as SMs don't drive them but servitors.

Concerning the Knights, they are DW but we have not given DW Fearless until now, except for characters.

I think some thought needs be given before any new units be added to the list. We don't want DAs to be better Ultras in green.

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*looks at the Wh40k model* Well there is clearly a Space Marine in power armour sitting in the cockpit.

@DW Knights: Right, I forgt that we dropped Fearless from the DW Terminators to keep the cost down. So no need for new stats as Assault Terminators are alredy in.

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Would you feel comfortable with 1+ init on aircraft units?

This would give DAs the best interceptors...

Also, when I look at your stats for the Nephilim, it screams OTT....

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The nephilim is flown by the Ravenwing.

I think the missile should be represented. They are AA. But, AA 4+ is a bit too good. Honestly, they aren't really that great in 40k. Too bad heavy bolters are already precidented at AA 5+. I think they would be better represented at 6+, pesonally.

DWK and RWK, I love them, but don't think they need to be represented in Epic.

The shroud should be, though. There are 10, which in a company of 100 (although the number of RW is now undisclosed), come out to 1 every 10 man RAS; or 2 for each proposed Epic frm. I see there is invulnerability on it. Any plans to make it synergistic witha RAS, as in stealth for 40k? If not, I don't see the need for it.

I like the idea of the vengeance, as well. A DA prism cannon. :-)

*thinks about modeling possibilities* hmmmmm.....

I would just drop the AA stat from the Darksword Missiles.


What do you mean by this? Invulnerable Save (and Inspiring) is the closed thing i can come up with to represent the Stealth abilities of the Land Speeder Darkshroud without creating a new special ability.

Just noticed that the Stasis Bomb on the Ravenwing Darktalon is mandatory.
How about this for stats:
Stasis Bomb (15cm) Small Arms Inspiring, One-Shot

Yes this means you could get a +1 on the assault resolution roll...once!

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Would the shroud confer invulnerable on its squad? Otherwise, giving a terrain modifier to hit on its squad could work.

Its "squad" is the LS Darkshroud itself

The Stealth effect it has confers to units in a 6" radius in Wh40k. To small for Epic. But enoughto give an Invulnerable Save t othe LS Darskshroud itself.
The Inspiring mainly comes from the relict it carries.

I would rather use existing Epic special abilities than to create a new one for only one unit while only one army can use it.

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Please do - AA4+ is OTT (you know my views on this), as is 45cm range, and 3x AA weapons could also be considered excessive

I see. I guess you're right.

Wouldn't it be an upgrade for a formation? I don't see Darkshouds being a fm unto themselves.

I hope to play a game on Monday. I will make a list involving a lot of these units to see how they play.